World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Druids losing 3-5k armor

Adeanowene

< Illusion >

Thrall

0. Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 11:17:48 AM PST

post here.

If RAWR calculations are correct Im gonna lose 3k armor (5k with both armor trinkets equipped).

It's like %10 percent of armor lost. We also losing some attack power. Depressing.

And swipe still sucks.

Coldfinger

Darrowmere

1. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 11:22:42 AM PST

Needed change. Hope they buff swipe.

Sabec

< Mediocre at Best >

Mug'thol

2. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 11:29:49 AM PST

Q u o t e:
post here.

If RAWR calculations are correct Im gonna lose 3k armor (5k with both armor trinkets equipped).

It's like %10 percent of armor lost. We also losing some attack power. Depressing.

And swipe still sucks.

Its not a nerf its not a nerf!!! Oh wait just kidding, empty promises once again.

Cards

< Perseverance >

Tichondrius

3. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:01:50 PM PST

Q u o t e:
post here.

If RAWR calculations are correct Im gonna lose 3k armor (5k with both armor trinkets equipped).

It's like %10 percent of armor lost. We also losing some attack power. Depressing.

And swipe still sucks.

I'm losing armor, but I do think the change was necessary. However, druids already needed a tanking buff, so they should have provided us with a much larger buff to compensate for this nerf, such as making AP improve our dodge rating since we are forced to use gear with so much of it.

While clearing Mother Shahraz trash:
Cards: Goreth, what was the cardinality of the set of heals you received?
Goreth: Zero, it was the empty set.

Guaritor

< Jínxed >

Cho'gall

4. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:14:13 PM PST

Q u o t e:
post here.

If RAWR calculations are correct Im gonna lose 3k armor (5k with both armor trinkets equipped).

It's like %10 percent of armor lost. We also losing some attack power. Depressing.

And swipe still sucks.

If your tanking gear is whats on your armory right now... you lose 1.5ish armor.

Hmm rawr does say 3k though... odd...

Rawr also seems to be off for me... its off on my armor live now when i load it right from armory, and it says im losing armor when im really gaining it next patch...

[ Post edited by Guaritor ]

Ruin: We bring our drama to you!

Ebolajoe

< Lucky Drunks >

Skullcrusher

5. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:29:57 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Its not a nerf its not a nerf!!! Oh wait just kidding, empty promises once again.

Lol, I feel ur pain. They said the same to DKs. As soon as blizz started talking about nerfing armor from those items, you knew they were gonna screw it up. Somehow every change ends up being a nerf in some way or another.

Its to bad too. There were some really nice druid-centric tanking items until the nerf.

You gotta love the reasoning too. 'The armor on these items was too high, so were gonna nerf druids and DKs...'.

BRRRAAIIINSSS
*stumbles over to OP and begins an intensive search*
BR....AINS...?
*looking somewhat disappointed, shuffles away*
BRRAIIINNS.....

Guaritor

< Jínxed >

Cho'gall

6. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:37:26 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Its not a nerf its not a nerf!!! Oh wait just kidding, empty promises once again.

Fyi, your getting buffed*

Ruin: We bring our drama to you!

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

7. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:46:47 PM PST

We don't verify if third-party spreadsheets or mods have accurate numbers in them. Other players are usually pretty good at pointing out limitations when they arise.

You shouldn't be losing any armor unless you already have the best jewelry and trinkets available in the game. The reason we announced this change very early was so players didn't go through heroic efforts to procure those items only to find their armor component later nerfed. One of the reasons we made the change was because druids without those pieces felt like sub-standard tanks with regard to mitigation.

For druids without those pieces, the change should be a buff.

Monkar

< Slackers >

Lothar

8. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:50:04 PM PST

Q u o t e:
We don't verify if third-party spreadsheets or mods have accurate numbers in them. Other players are usually pretty good at pointing out limitations when they arise.

You shouldn't be losing any armor unless you already have the best jewelry and trinkets available in the game. The reason we announced this change very early was so players didn't go through heroic efforts to procure those items only to find their armor component later nerfed. One of the reasons we made the change was because druids without those pieces felt like sub-standard tanks with regard to mitigation.

For druids without those pieces, the change should be a buff.

The druids with the pieces are going to be capping the DR on avoidance soon. Please elaborate on what else then we have to focus on? I don't think your intent is to have druids tanking in Frost gear, is it?

Badges...

Deodir

Baelgun

9. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 12:54:50 PM PST

Q u o t e:
The druids with the pieces are going to be capping the DR on avoidance soon. Please elaborate on what else then we have to focus on? I don't think your intent is to have druids tanking in Frost gear, is it?

A Druid's Dodge cap is estimated at 116.890707%. How, pray tell, can any druid come near that cap?

Monkar

< Slackers >

Lothar

10. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:00:40 PM PST

Q u o t e:

A Druid's Dodge cap is estimated at 116.890707%. How, pray tell, can any druid come near that cap?

Diminishing returns on dodge get quite hefty at 50%. You do remember 3.0, right?

Badges...

Deodir

Baelgun

11. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:06:39 PM PST

That cap I posted is in fact the data you use to determine the 1/CapD for DR.

The cap for plate tanks is 88% for Dodge, 47% for Parry and ~13% for Miss. Parry and Miss diminishes so fast it's not funny. Also, the K value for Bears is 0.9720 while every other tanks' is 0.9560 so your Dodge diminishes at half the speed everyone else is.

Relative to plate tanks, Bears have no problems with regards to capping out.

Monkar

< Slackers >

Lothar

12. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:09:29 PM PST

Except as those returns continue to get harsher compared to where we are in the state of DR for armor I would be surprised to see that point for point we are getting more out of the dodge.

Badges...

Victreebel

< Blue and Cyan >

Azgalor

13. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:12:22 PM PST

Q u o t e:
That cap I posted is in fact the data you use to determine the 1/CapD for DR.

The cap for plate tanks is 88% for Dodge, 47% for Parry and ~13% for Miss. Parry and Miss diminishes so fast it's not funny. Also, the K value for Bears is 0.9720 while every other tanks' is 0.9560 so your Dodge diminishes at half the speed everyone else is.

Relative to plate tanks, Bears have no problems with regards to capping out.

This is simply not true sir. When I have one of my dodge trinkets popped in a raid i can get up to about 50 dodge, popping my other one granting about 400 dodge rating, gives me 1. Clearly you only read and belive anything on paper, try some practice.

Fenicks

< Reset >

Thunderhorn

14. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:13:23 PM PST

Q u o t e:

This is simply not true sir. When I have one of my dodge trinkets popped in a raid i can get up to about 50 dodge, popping my other one granting about 400 dodge rating, gives me 1. Clearly you only read and belive anything on paper, try some practice.

First of all, I have idea what you're saying. Second, math evidence > anecdotal evidence. And all that math he posted is correct.

Victreebel

< Blue and Cyan >

Azgalor

15. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:14:46 PM PST

Q u o t e:

First of all, I have idea what you're saying. Second, math evidence > anecdotal evidence. And all that math he posted is correct.

What does the cap matter if you would be needing thousands of dodge rating to achieve it which is impossible? The essential cap is 50. Heavily investing past that point gives very little return.

Deodir

Baelgun

16. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:16:04 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Except as those returns continue to get harsher compared to where we are in the state of DR for armor I would be surprised to see that point for point we are getting more out of the dodge.

Why is that a bad thing?

Traditionally, DR on armor has no relevance on armor's time-to-live contributions. Now that avoidance is being hit with DR, you'll see all avoidance stat be brought in line similarly to armor in terms of ttl.

The result? Druids will want to balance armor and avoidance just like any other tank instead of being exclusively hunting for a rare bonus-armor piece.

GC has also expressed the possibility to have Bears scale mitigation with AP in his latest round of posts, as long as it scales only with AP from gear and not from buffs.

Fenicks

< Reset >

Thunderhorn

17. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:16:26 PM PST

Q u o t e:
The essential cap is 50. Heavily investing past that point gives very little return.

No, it's definitely not. The 'essential' cap is 116.8%.

[ Post edited by Fenicks ]

Victreebel

< Blue and Cyan >

Azgalor

18. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:18:10 PM PST

Q u o t e:

No, it's definitely not. The 'essential' cap is 116.8%.

Then show me how much dodge rating or agility would be required to reach this point. Such gear and possilibty does not exist in this game. How much dodge rating does it take to get from 50 to 55? Tell me that.

Monkar

< Slackers >

Lothar

19. Re: Druids losing 3-5k armor 12/13/2008 01:18:36 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Why is that a bad thing?

Traditionally, DR on armor has no relevance on armor's time-to-live contributions. Now that avoidance is being hit with DR, you'll see all avoidance stat be brought in line similarly to armor in terms of ttl.

The result? Druids will want to balance armor and avoidance just like any other tank instead of being exclusively hunting for a rare bonus-armor piece.

GC has also expressed the possibility to have Bears scale mitigation with AP in his latest round of posts, as long as it scales only with AP from gear and not from buffs.

I don't ague the need for the change. My contention has always been with really only 2 defensive variables and one being taken away, that the choices in gear will be further narrowed. I really hope that we receive that third stat to make this much more smooth and natural across tiers of content.

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Forum > CLASS ROLES > TANKING