World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progression.

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

40. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:48:55 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Again, this is at level 70, when everyone had their lvl 80 talents. How many times do we have to say this? I couldn't kill someone inside a HoJ now even if I had 16k attack power....

Inside a HoJ was exaggerating a little @ 80 when Wotlk first went live ret paladins were doing far too much burst and that was fixed. If a ret paladin touched you you would die.

The hunter changes are stemming from PvE damage being bloated due to talent synergies like BW/Readiness and the excessive stacking ability of CoTW.

I run a normal Beast mastery build and I trade top spots with mages, boomkins, and fury warriors in my guild.

Most of the problems stemmed from hunters pushing the extremes in regards to talents and ability stacking.

If cotw is changed and bw is taken off readiness you won't see hunters putting out the extreme numbers you're seeing on many patchwerk WWS reports.

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

41. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:50:28 AM PST

Q u o t e:

typical, idiots responding to jokes like idiots.

Why are you joking around in this forum? This is a discussion forum for dps classes not a place for you get to your e hard on.

The quoted user should probably suspended.

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Lenena

< Hellfyre >

Darkspear

42. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:51:00 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Inside a HoJ was exaggerating a little @ 80 when Wotlk first went live ret paladins were doing far too much burst and that was fixed. If a ret paladin touched you you would die.

The hunter changes are stemming from PvE damage being bloated due to talent synergies like BW/Readiness and the excessive stacking ability of CoTW.

I run a normal Beast mastery build and I trade top spots with mages, boomkins, and fury warriors in my guild.

Most of the problems stemmed from hunters pushing the extremes in regards to talents and ability stacking.

If cotw is changed and bw is taken off readiness you won't see hunters putting out the extreme numbers you're seeing on many patchwerk WWS reports.

The CotW stacking probably did more then TBW/Readiness...
Eh, I was going Exotic anyways regardless...

Main: Big Red Huntard http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Darkspear&n=Zulgaro
Alt: Tankadin http://armory.worldofwarcraft.com/#character-sheet.xml?r=Darkspear&n=Lenena

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

43. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:51:29 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Don't like your own logic applied to you ehh?

You're not though you just think you are because you're a little slow.

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Jayded

< Rush >

Dark Iron

44. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:53:30 AM PST

Q u o t e:

You're not though you just think you are because you're a little slow.

Stop crying, wait for PTR, test it, leave your feedback, and sit back and wait for results.

That's what you'd have everyone else do - do it yourself.

~I am a nobody, nobody is perfect, therefore I am perfect.

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

45. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:56:07 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Stop crying, wait for PTR, test it, leave your feedback, and sit back and wait for results.

That's what you'd have everyone else do - do it yourself.

Your complaints are about arena. WHICH WE CAN'T TEST YET

My complaints are about a dmg nerf going to PTR that is addressing things that shouldn't even be considered yet until the glaring boosts like cotw and bw/readiness are fixed.

Your opinion is based off speculation. Mine is not.

[ Post edited by Levidia ]

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Yupa

Blackhand

46. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:57:18 AM PST

NERF RET ZOMG

24 hours later TO THE GROUND BABY

AhAHAHAHAHhAHAHA

Hunters will be nerfed

Waitwut? Oh noes, please, we need testing, and more testing, and testing here, and testing there, are you sure its all necessary at once? Maybe we need it in stages, we cant have it be too much, that would break the class...

Sucks dont it?

If this is surgical can I sue for malpractice?

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

47. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 08:58:35 AM PST

Q u o t e:
NERF RET ZOMG

24 hours later TO THE GROUND BABY

AhAHAHAHAHhAHAHA

Hunters will be nerfed

Waitwut? Oh noes, please, we need testing, and more testing, and testing here, and testing there, are you sure its all necessary at once? Maybe we need it in stages, we cant have it be too much, that would break the class...

Sucks dont it?

Ret paladins got nerfed because they were bursting too hard among other things. Hunters are going to potentially get nerfed because blizzard left exploitable abilities and talent synergies in the game.

Completely different situation.

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Kucka

< Reckless Ambition >

Auchindoun

48. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:03:20 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Your opinion is based off speculation. Mine is not.

You are speculating that Blizzard is so incompetent that they didn't take into account thing you did when they conceived the changes.

My opinion is based on me having a calculator and 3rd grade education.

I don't know which one is worse.

~I am a nobody, nobody is perfect, therefore I am perfect.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

49. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:03:25 AM PST

This isn't a Ret paladin issue and it's not really a PR issue.

When we make changes, we prefer to make enough changes to actually fix the problem so we can move on. There are a lot of different aspects of the game we want to touch so we'd rather not still be dealing with hunter dps imabalance months from now.

I admit when we make mistakes in our numbers. But you shouldn't turn that into our numbers never being close to the mark. Lack of perfection does not translate into a total mess.

Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot. We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

50. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:03:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:

This isn't a Ret paladin issue and it's not really a PR issue.

Exactly. I hate when people try to spin things into something they're not.

Q u o t e:

When we make changes, we prefer to make enough changes to actually fix the problem so we can move on. There are a lot of different aspects of the game we want to touch so we'd rather not still be dealing with hunter dps imabalance months from now.

I understand that. It just seems really weird to lump broken talent synergies and exploitable pet buffs into the same push as base line adjustments to abilities.

Q u o t e:

I admit when we make mistakes in our numbers. But you shouldn't turn that into our numbers never being close to the mark. Lack of perfection does not translate into a total mess.

Just as long as the right influences on those numbers are adjusted is what I'm worried about.
Example: Steady shot being nerfed but cotw staying in would be an example of the wrong thing being adjusted.

Q u o t e:

Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot. We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

That's fine. So can we expect a damage transition out of steady and into instants? (steady -dmg, Instants +dmg) Or are we just going to get to the point where steady is just worse than instants forcing us to use instants resulting in lower total damage and worse mana efficiency?

[ Post edited by Levidia ]

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Agiri

< Artifice >

Boulderfist

51. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:06:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Anyone else remember when SS had a 10% AP modifier? I do, and it was changed to 20% because hunters were not scaling with gear and falling behind. There is a lesson in that.

Chulak and Lev hit the nail on the head.

Everyone knew a hunter nerf was coming. A lot of it is nothing more than bug fixes (C'mon, you *really* thought that CotW stacking was intended?), but a graduated response is absolutely needed.

"I swear every retard on my server rolled a DK. I have one at 63 right now"
The first epic, capped, and canned troll thread of the DK forums.
Boolean Logic is for suckers and not-Deathtards.

Glitmore

< Mathletes >

Feathermoon

52. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:08:16 AM PST

I agree on the part that Steady isnt every interesting, but if you want us to use other shots, make them worth using. In their current form, Arcane/Multi/Aimed have too high a mana cost to make them viable in a long term boss fight.

Misette yaru...KUSANAGI NO KUBUSHI YO!!

Noklars

< Shining Force >

Mal'Ganis

53. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:10:35 AM PST

Q u o t e:
This isn't a Ret paladin issue and it's not really a PR issue.

When we make changes, we prefer to make enough changes to actually fix the problem so we can move on. There are a lot of different aspects of the game we want to touch so we'd rather not still be dealing with hunter dps imabalance months from now.

I admit when we make mistakes in our numbers. But you shouldn't turn that into our numbers never being close to the mark. Lack of perfection does not translate into a total mess.

Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot. We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

so, I use an instant repeatedly every boss fight, it's called Chimera. You are hurting my spec when trying to do make BM more 'interesting.' My spec is not high on DPS, we are even with other classes, including hybrids.

Also, when you decide to fix your servers so we don't constantly get lag spikes up to 1000ms every night, I might consider using something that isn't auto queued so I don't lose DPS.

*edit* not to mention the Survival shot rotation. ES, Multi, steady till those are up (like 2-3 SS) then repeat. Obviously you don't want us to use rotations like this because you are not buffing Survival, yet you want BM to do more than just SS. I just don't see logic in your statement. i currently have the 'flavor' you want in my MM spec but in trying to 'fix' BM, you hurt other specs. Please reconsider.

[ Post edited by Noklars ]

Agiri

< Artifice >

Boulderfist

54. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:13:54 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot.

GC, which is it? In the past we were told that Steady was our "bread and butter", and the new talents affecting it in wrath certainly made it seem so.

Q u o t e:
We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

It's pretty hard to "focus on" special shots that have long, linked cooldowns. Aimed was worthwhile for a MM build that picked up the appropriate talents and glyph, but the current mechanics (implemented back at the launch of TBC to "fix" hunters using nothing but aimed shot, by the way) make Aimed a normally poor choice.

Really, the only thing about shot rotations that many hunters find "feels annoying" is having to change it up every time they find something that works, because Blizzard didn't like how real people chose to use the abilities that Blizzard devs dreamed up.

.

"I swear every retard on my server rolled a DK. I have one at 63 right now"
The first epic, capped, and canned troll thread of the DK forums.
Boolean Logic is for suckers and not-Deathtards.

Viperous

< Wildly Inappropriate >

Vashj

55. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:14:28 AM PST

Q u o t e:
This isn't a Ret paladin issue and it's not really a PR issue.

When we make changes, we prefer to make enough changes to actually fix the problem so we can move on. There are a lot of different aspects of the game we want to touch so we'd rather not still be dealing with hunter dps imabalance months from now.

I admit when we make mistakes in our numbers. But you shouldn't turn that into our numbers never being close to the mark. Lack of perfection does not translate into a total mess.

Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot. We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

If your intent is to move focus to other such shots, then you need to fix the mana issue. Currently every other shot costs way too much mana for our insultingly low mana pools. And you know good and well aspect of the viper isn't a cure all for this. We'll now have the option to stay in viper and use multiple different shots, or stay in dragonhawk and continue spamming steady.

Pupput

< A New Beginning >

Feathermoon

56. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:15:04 AM PST

Q u o t e:
This isn't a Ret paladin issue and it's not really a PR issue.

When we make changes, we prefer to make enough changes to actually fix the problem so we can move on. There are a lot of different aspects of the game we want to touch so we'd rather not still be dealing with hunter dps imabalance months from now.

I admit when we make mistakes in our numbers. But you shouldn't turn that into our numbers never being close to the mark. Lack of perfection does not translate into a total mess.

Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot. We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

I like the idea of moving away from steady/auto shot being most of what a hunter does. However I think you will need to reevaluate mana costs. The reason steady is bread and butter is we can use it for a good amount of time without running out of mana if you start throwing in aimed shots, arcane shots, multi shots then you will run out of mana in under a minute spending half your time in viper trying to refill your mana bar doing 50% damage.

Nhul

< Krimson Kaos >

Silver Hand

57. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:16:18 AM PST

While this is not an identical situation to retribution there are some potential links.

Ret was nerfed in several ways over a VERY short period of time, several times without ANY testing whatsoever. They could have nerfed Seals, or Judgment, or Mana, or Hammer of Wrath and tested, but instead they nerfed them all.

To the ground baby.

Retribution

Levidia

< Durotar All Stars >

Executus

58. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:16:39 AM PST

Q u o t e:

We'll now have the option to stay in viper and use multiple different shots, or stay in dragonhawk and continue spamming steady.

You're exaggerating quite a bit here.

Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."

Kkyle

< Sad Panda >

Smolderthorn

59. Re: Hunter -Nerfs- there needs to be progress 12/10/2008 09:17:51 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Another reason we like the Steady Shot change is it puts more emphasis on the instant and other hunter shots. Steady is a good bread and butter ability but it's not much more interesting than auto shot. We'd like to see Aimed Shot, Multi Shot, Arcane Shot and other abilities be what the player focuses on. When you get such a big chunk of damage from auto + steady, it makes those other attacks feel puny and the fact you have to use them feel annoying.

Great so maybe we can get some buffs to our instant shots?

It will help with our terrible burst damage in pvp. I would like it if I was actually dangerous at range and on the move in arena.

If our DPS falls too much in pve, buffing instant shots will help close the gap again. I for one am fine with a more interesting shot rotation. I just think nerfing steady with the intent of diversifying our rotation is only solving half of the equation.

[ Post edited by Kkyle ]

Forum > CLASS ROLES > DAMAGE DEALING