Hey All.

Everyone have the same problems when we talk about DK and Tanking. The damm Def Cap that is horrible to achieve when you start to get Naxx gear (Lot's of Epics has less Def than the Blues).

Of course all changes will help a lot, Sigils and Runic Enchants will be awesome.

Still, the DW Tanking DK seems to be a far far away reality in the moment. Mostly because we just miss too much and the Damage (Yellow) is not that Great to generate threat enought for not losing aggro.

Shouldnt you guys think in something to improve more the Hit Rating and Threat generation from DW? I know that there is a talent already but it doesnt seems too good for helping us.

A DW DK would never have problems with the Def. Cap...

Just a thought. Thank you.

Well, if there's unique DW needs then I suppose offhand-only runeforges could be implemented. However that would be interesting to deal with one-handers- presumably they'd need to only be equippable in the offhand while they have that runeforge on them.

Another idea would be an Off-hand special attack that deals low damage but high threat. Have it cost Runic Power (so as to not put more runes on CD) and be "on next attack" so as to not use up extra GCDs.

I still think anyone currently DW tanking is either an idiot or just doing it to look cool.

That said Id still like to see them buff DW tanking.

I know at least once during beta that GC explicitly stated they had no intention of buffing DWing for DKs. The new 2h-only runeforge enchant pretty much eliminates the only possible advantage for DW tanking, so I'm guessing their stance hasn't changed.

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Q u o t e:
I still think anyone currently DW tanking is either an idiot or just doing it to look cool.

That said Id still like to see them buff DW tanking.

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Well, the real issue is offhand parry-gibbing. If that were out of the way, DW tanking would probably be superior to 2h tanking. :) It would be kinda cool if the DW damage increases in Frost kicked that problem out of the water.

Honestly, if they made DW tanking "viable", it would practically be required.

Think about it.

That said, there are fights, according to a blue post I read, that actually IGNORE the parry-hasting mechanic. The only boss specifically mentioned in this post was Patchwerk. The poster hinted at other bosses that could share this feature.

Right now DW is (supposed) to be better, on this one fight specifically. Personally, I think if DW tanking was buffed even a little more, it would suddenly become the norm and then anyone 2h tanking would then become the absolute morons. I don't want this.

IMO it's a careful balance that needs to be struck, I personally think the balance okay as is, but what do I know? My concern is the parry situation discourages dual wielding. If only there was some way for parried off-hand attacks to not accelerate the next swing of the enemy..

On a related note I wouldn't mind Arms being able to do some defensive things with a 2h'er as well - that's why a DK is so darn appealing.

and I now I have to stop responding to posts like this with the typical "GC is likely to ignore this because you directed the thread at him"

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Q u o t e:
On every spec for which we have allowed dual-wielding and propped it up with talents, DW tends to dominate.

It's tricky, but we want death knights to have the option of DW for dps or tanking. Too many talents will push DW as the only way to go.

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I think the Parry timer reset alone keeps DKs from going DW. I'd like to DW but that alone is enough to make me not want to try.

Everyone thinks we suck as is. I don't want to prove them right because of a silly mechanic like insta-attacks after a parry.

What's the purpose of that, anyway? It just punishes fast attacks... All our moves are instant as is.

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Q u o t e:
IMO it's a careful balance that needs to be struck, I personally think the balance okay as is, but what do I know? My concern is the parry situation discourages dual wielding. If only there was some way for parried off-hand attacks to not accelerate the next swing of the enemy..

On a related note I wouldn't mind Arms being able to do some defensive things with a 2h'er as well - that's why a DK is so darn appealing.

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Parry haste has been here since release. Taking it out would be stupid as it's always been a mechanic. Then again, they've removed even more vital things with less notice.

And it's not just parry haste that makes DW awful. Due to how DKs work, the threat of a DW tank will be awful.

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Q u o t e:


I think the Parry timer reset alone keeps DKs from going DW. I'd like to DW but that alone is enough to make me not want to try.

Everyone thinks we suck as is. I don't want to prove them right because of a silly mechanic like insta-attacks after a parry.

What's the purpose of that, anyway? It just punishes fast attacks... All our moves are instant as is.

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/agree

as it stands right now, it would be foolish to attempt to DW tank unless you out gear the instance/have healers good reflexes and don't have any risk factors for heart problems.

Parry-gibbing is basically preventing dw from ever being equal to 2h tanking or even viable as a method of tanking.

Slippery slope. Dead ahead!

one the things I remember the first time I ever herd about dk tanks was the idea that they we're ment to tank with a 2 handers it's one of the many reasons I even rolled one. Something new and dilfferent and back then and even now I hope blzzard supports and will make it work out over D/W.

I even have D/W weapons for extra def but hope like n the blue post that they would not add extra talents to make D/W the must option.

A good step in the right direction would be to remove parry gibbing and give death knights Dual wield ability more + to hit and remove the damage factor all together. If i tried to main tank a boss like patchwerk by dual wielding i would get ripped to shreds in an instant thanks to parry gibbing. You cant stack hit and Expertise on top of the already insane requirements to keep your defense capped.

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Q u o t e:
On every spec for which we have allowed dual-wielding and propped it up with talents, DW tends to dominate.

It's tricky, but we want death knights to have the option of DW for dps or tanking. Too many talents will push DW as the only way to go.

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But by not touching DW at all, you're making it seem as if 2H is the only way to go.

Having off hand strikes be un-parryable wouldn't break the balance, and would quell the stupid stereotype that DW DKs can't tank.

At least that, or let like 10% or some miniscule number of Offhand damage contribute to strikes, to make up for the lost burst damage on that.

I like being able to visually tell if a dk tank is bad or not before zoning into a dungeon w/ them. :)

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Q u o t e:
On every spec for which we have allowed dual-wielding and propped it up with talents, DW tends to dominate.

It's tricky, but we want death knights to have the option of DW for dps or tanking. Too many talents will push DW as the only way to go.

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From a design perspective, isn't this fairly strong evidence that DW itself is a bit too powerful? In other words, the DW penalty needs to be increased. (Excluding rogues, of course, since they have no choice.)

With the removal of crushing blows, is the Parry haste boogie man really as Nasty anymore?
If the upcoming patch really does help smooth out the DK tanking damage spikes, then I think this parry haste is way overblown. Boss parry haste doesn't make the next attack instant, it just a little quicker.

I think its the massive amount of Hit and Defense stats required that really holds back the DW DK tank.

Of course, we all saw how DW parry haste helped the Lich King smoke Mograine(who duel wields) in the DK starting area finale so I could be wrong. ;)