GC,

Regrowth is slightly slower than nourish, true, but with a ~65% crit rate for regrowth and the fact that casting it will proc nature's grace which most healing druids have, means that the 2nd and subsequent regrowths will be just as fast as nourish which most likely wont crit. Since nourish probably wont crit, natures grace most likely wont proc. Most of the time those two spells will therefore be the same 'speed', and regrowth lands for ~7k-9k AND leaves a hot there's no comparison with nourish which lands for 4k and doesn't leave a hot.

Nourish isn't even in the same ballpark as regrowth.

The only time I use it is when I have full hots on the tank, and the tank is dropping health slightly. Then I put a few nourishes on. If I didn't have nourish I would just keep spamming regrowth, and probably be just as effective.

Nourish needs to synergize with SOMETHING. I think since WG is being given a 6second cooldown, having it synergize with nourish would be great. Something like "Nourish heals for 20% more when the target is under the effect of WG" or something similar.

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Q u o t e:
One of the cool things about Resto is there are so many different options to use depending on the situation. The downside is it risks making the niche for some abilities too small.

We think there is some validity to the notion that Nourish is not propped up enough by talents. It will also be getting a glyph at some point.

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Please, please, please make a glyph to let it be cast in moonkin form :)

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Q u o t e:
One of the cool things about Resto is there are so many different options to use depending on the situation. The downside is it risks making the niche for some abilities too small.

We think there is some validity to the notion that Nourish is not propped up enough by talents. It will also be getting a glyph at some point.

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Here's one more shameless plug for Wild Growth + Nourish synergy!

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Q u o t e:
One of the cool things about Resto is there are so many different options to use depending on the situation. The downside is it risks making the niche for some abilities too small.

We think there is some validity to the notion that Nourish is not propped up enough by talents. It will also be getting a glyph at some point.

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well at least its noticed =\
Both parts of his statement are very true nourish used to gain a very strong mana return from GoTEM and it would be awesome if that came back. And a glyph that actually benefitted the spell would be awesome as well. Maybe heal for 50% but refresh the duration of all hots onthe target <3 ?????

Nourish would be more attractive with some better talent synergy. Another problem I see with nourish is the Tranquil Spirit talent. The HPM comparisons I've seen so far have included tranquil spirit despite the fact that very few people take this talent. It's a 5 point investment that covers one spell that would routinely be used and 2 oh crap buttons. It's a very steep price to pay to essentially benefit one spell.

im a big HOT healer and love nourish over spamming regrowth as hasted nourish with hots on the target is a much better spike dmg spell.

that being said i still will keep regrowth refreshed on the target for the 20% extra from the glyph.

its all about style of play and how you use your spell.

nourish blows without hots on the target. with hots on the target nourish scales so much better than any of the other heals (except if you go for HT spec) and is mana efficient and a fast cast. with haste trinket procs and all i can get some very fast casts.

nourish is also very very very very very nice on Kel (last boss in naxx) when he iceblocks, and since i keep rejuv on my assigned people i can choose to nourish them or SM them.

i cant wait for my t7 bonus to this spell as i will be getting 10%-20% more heals from it for a total of 30-40% more from a spell that already heals fro around 5k with a very close to 1.1-1.2 sec cast at low mana cost without gimping my other heals.

if you dont like the nourish play stile then dont QQ about something you dont understand or like as it is a very nice spell; and beats the hell out of one button LB rolling.

A lot of people complain about both nourish and the replenish talent.

If nourish was added to replenish along with rejuv, would that make both the talent and the spell more attractive?

As a feral druid, I love nourish. It's one of the most mana-efficient heals I have. It's fantastic for restoring my 24k health after I fall, or die, or rez someone else, or whatever.

Regrowth
Nourish spam
Bearform power, activate!

above poster makes a very good point as well:

two people get ice blocks on kel, it kills them in four seconds

you can cast two nourishes in three seconds, so if you have a fast reaction time and some haste you can possibly catch both people.

with regrowth if you aren't lucky enough to have natures grace there is no way you can heal both the ice blocked people in time.

some times .5 seconds is a really long time when you are healing.

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Q u o t e:
that being said i still will keep regrowth refreshed on the target for the 20% extra from the glyph.

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A few things. If you primarily use Nourish as your direct heal, why do you glyph Regrowth? The glyph for Regrowth is all about boosting its throughput and efficiency as a direct heal.

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Q u o t e:
nourish blows without hots on the target. with hots on the target nourish scales so much better than any of the other heals (except if you go for HT spec) and is mana efficient and a fast cast. with haste trinket procs and all i can get some very fast casts.

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It blows with them, as well. With full HoTs on the target (tank heal), it's still lower HPM across the board:

http://www.resto4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hpm-tank-heals.gif

And it has the LOWEST HPS of any direct heal in our arsenal.

http://www.resto4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hps-tank-heals.gif

And things get much worse when it's leveraged as a raid heal (on someone who doesn't have the benefit of 3 HoTs).

http://www.resto4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hpm-raid-heals.gif
http://www.resto4life.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/hps-raid-heals.gif

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Q u o t e:
i cant wait for my t7 bonus to this spell as i will be getting 10%-20% more heals from it for a total of 30-40% more from a spell that already heals fro around 5k with a very close to 1.1-1.2 sec cast at low mana cost without gimping my other heals.

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The 4-piece T7 bonus is an amazing boost to Nourish, but even with it, its HPS remains below that of Regrowth and only has a better HPM value. I also have to object to the idea that Resto Druids shouldn't be able to graduate out of their T7 gear because they can't afford to forfeit such a hefty bonus.

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Q u o t e:
if you dont like the nourish play stile then dont QQ about something you dont understand or like as it is a very nice spell; and beats the hell out of one button LB rolling.

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If you don't understand the Nourish playstyle and its ineffectivness, then don't QQ about the QQ of those of us who do! And certainly don't assume that those of us who have issue with the spell did nothing but roll Lifebloom in TBC content.

I'm looking forward to using Nourish and I have a feeling the Nourish Glyph will be pretty interesting.

Phaelia,

I really enjoyed your latest article on healing in Wrath. Your comment about Nourish being beneficial for a Feral or Balance Druid seems to be true. Your comments about glyphed/talented HT being a possible counter to DKs in Arena was pretty +5 insightful. I'm looking forward to seeing it in action.


Sort of OT:

Because Blizz generally doesn't release their data sets, or heaven forbid, an API (Yes, I know - crazy talk), if they were to put you in charge of WWS and pay you, ALL WoW players would be better off. That is a resounding endorsement of your methodology, precision and all around general meticulous handling of topics on your website.

GC, I appreciate you somewhat reading these threads, but every time you post something about resto druids, I feel like I'm watching one of those old episodes of Inspector Gadget...

Where Penny figures out the crime 10 minutes into the show, and the rest of the 20 minutes are Penny trying to explain to Uncle Gadget, and him assuming he knows best and refusing to listen.

At least Penny had that cool computer book. :-(

It seems like you just don't get it.

Nourish isn't bad. Nourish just isn't needed for resto.

A better comparison than Flash Heal would be Nourish is like the priest Heal spell if there were ranks of it past level 34.

Post 3.0.8, I probably won't even spec for Wild Growth anymore. So I'm back to doing exactly what I was doing in BC. No new healing spells, no new damage spells, and a Lifebloom that is worse for wear. My healing is fine. I do well with the tools I have. It's just nothing new or interesting or fun.

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Q u o t e:
One of the cool things about Resto is there are so many different options to use depending on the situation. The downside is it risks making the niche for some abilities too small.

We think there is some validity to the notion that Nourish is not propped up enough by talents. It will also be getting a glyph at some point.

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I am relieved that you will consider adding some additional talent synergy to Nourish to make a playstyle that focuses on it more viable. I think it would be interesting to see it tacked onto a couple more talents in the Restoration tree and possibly add a particularly nice effect somewhere in the Balance tree that would allow Restos to choose from two different playstyles. Since Wild Growth would seem to define a deep Resto build as one that excels at raid healing and Nourish is obviously intended to bolster tank healing, something that augments it in a tank-healing role would seem ideal.

P.S. Graviplana, thank you for the kind words. I'm grateful for all of the feedback and information I was given (both before and after publishing) to make that analysis as accurate as I could, and I'm very happy to have you among the readers at R4L. =)

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Q u o t e:
One of the cool things about Resto is there are so many different options to use depending on the situation. The downside is it risks making the niche for some abilities too small.

We think there is some validity to the notion that Nourish is not propped up enough by talents. It will also be getting a glyph at some point.

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Many of the previous posters reflect that Resto has a lot of options and are referring to Nourish in that light: it's niche DOES appear to be too small. I haven't really seen any math that parallels the assertion by a few (unnamed) druids that it is amazing. Even if those in your inner circle posted on a lvl 1 alt for anonymity, I'd still be appreciative of hard data.

Maybe it is intended to be like the PvP situation for healers... yeah it sucks now but it'll get better as the endgame expands.

Due to the last nerf, however, I'm just waiting to hear "After looking at the data we feel druids have been using Regrowth too much, so..."

Maybe another give/take glyph similar to Healing Touch:

Increases the amount healed by Nourish by 50%, but gives the spell an X-second cooldown?



Or we could always go with a minor glyph: ;-)

Gives Nourish a random sparkly color when cast upon others.

Hey, Nilianil! Fancy seeing you here!

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Q u o t e:
I'm not sure if Phae factored in Living Seeds into the HPM and HPS of her comparisons, but if she didn't you've got that to talk about, too.

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I did actually try to factor in the contribution of Living Seed, though from all reports, the amount of effective healing it does is pretty diminutive (and hardly worth the 3-point investment, if you ask me). Here's a snippet from where I described its inclusion:

Living Seed is a difficult talent to factor into this analysis due to its high variance (30% of effective healing done by a spell crit that may possibly have gone to overhealing). WoWHead poster Foobear stated that a predominantly Regrowth-based fight yielded approximately 3% of effective healing done by Living Seed. If Living Seed were to hit for the full value every time, it would increase your extra healing on a spell crit from 0.5 to 0.95 (1.5 * 1.3). At a 60% crit rate, the average healing from factoring in crit would be 157% of the amount healed without crit (versus 130% without Living Seed). If Living Seed were getting its full value, it would account for 17% of effective healing. However, since it’s only doing 3%, we can estimate that Living Seed is only getting about 1/6 of its stated value. So instead of Living Seed giving a 0.45 bonus to crit, we’ll treat it as if it were giving a bonus of 0.08.

Obviously, devaluing Living Seed is going to tip the scales in favor of Nourish (and spells other than Regrowth) since it has a much lower spell crit value. If Living Seed were somehow changed to suddenly be worth its cost (say, if the value of the seed were no longer based on effective healing), Regrowth would be EVEN better. That makes me kind of sad, because it means it's an improvement that's unlikely to happen and LS will continue to be ... well ... poopy.

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Q u o t e:


Due to the last nerf, however, I'm just waiting to hear "After looking at the data we feel druids have been using Regrowth too much, so..."

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:O

/stabs