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Q u o t e:


You just don't get it!

You need to look at the math from sources like WSS reports for Patchwerk

BM Hunters: 6462 - 3030
Mages: 6290 - 3435
Warlocks: 5736 - 3046
MM Hunters: 5345 - 4096
Fury Warriors: 5279 - 3748
Feral Druids: 5212 - 3677
Moonkins: 5142 - 3331
Enh Shaman: 4833 - 3893
MS Warriors: 4820 - 3760
C. Rogues: 4778 - 2995
Mut Rogues: 4592 - 3318
Death Knights: 4397 - 3179
S. Priests: 4575 - 3260
Ret. Paladins: 4546 - 3185
Ele Shaman: 3740 - 2504

Even if we eventually get the minor buff to LB and LvB, our DPS will still be far far far below everyone else. This means we will continue to not be viable for raiding.

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It's funny how Blizz ignores actual numbers and keeps saying "our internal tests show ... ." Even if these numbers are off by 20%, elemental shamans are still gimped DPS-wise.

Blizz do your reports really vary that much from what is being proven? I can let you come to my house to test it out if you would like......


Blue Post anytime soon?

22 positive changes for Death Knights.

We got, what, announcement of 5 or so actual changes on only 2 were beneficial.

Thats some fine developement work there, lou...

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Q u o t e:
To be fair, the changes he announced were elemental based, just one spec, the changes for DK's were for the entire class, not just one spec.

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My rebuttle would be why do all three deathknight specs get attention while only one shaman spec does? And while we are at it, why in such small quantities when the class is doing so incredibly poorly at it stands? Look closely at GC's post in one of the other threads where he quite pointedly says he admits it when their numbers are wrong. Has ANYONE seen him do this yet? In fact, what we got were cautionary warnings about bans and casting off posts about gear and skill. Then we were told not to believe the meters. Then we were told that there isn't a big enough sampling yet.

Where, exactly, has he admitted anywhere that their numbers are wrong?

Hey, I just wanted for everyone to take a look at how skillfully they fixed Arcane's haste scaling.

apparently, we are neither "pressing" nor "critical".

This gives us LOTS of faith in the developement team!

See, GC makes it sound so nonchalant- "Gee, BM hunter DPS sure seems high" or "Arcane Mages seem to have difficulty keeping pace in PvP".

I would love to hear what sort of nonchalant stuff they say about Elemental Shaman.

Question from someone who's been on-and-off reading these forums:

Has Blizzard released any internal testing numbers? I was hearing about Elemental Shamans complaining about low DPS since mid-beta and Blizzard's response was always that Ele Shamans were, if anything, doing too much DPS. Hella confusing.

Also, that said, what does Elemental Shaman scaling look like (as I can't find a good compendium of Ele Shaman stats yet)? That's not to say that if it is very good, then an Ele Shaman should spec Resto and wait to play Ele, just that it gives a little more credence to Blizzard's claims.

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Q u o t e:
Question from someone who's been on-and-off reading these forums:

Has Blizzard released any internal testing numbers? I was hearing about Elemental Shamans complaining about low DPS since mid-beta and Blizzard's response was always that Ele Shamans were, if anything, doing too much DPS. Hella confusing.

Also, that said, what does Elemental Shaman scaling look like (as I can't find a good compendium of Ele Shaman stats yet)? That's not to say that if it is very good, then an Ele Shaman should spec Resto and wait to play Ele, just that it gives a little more credence to Blizzard's claims.

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Scaling is terrible at this point. It is the reason we are so far behind the crowd.

Blizzard put all of our DPS eggs in the Lava Burst Basket, and it gains nothing for scaling once hit capped (which our current gear does not allow). Auto Crit means it scales NOTHING from crit rating, Cooldown means it scales very poorly with haste and on top of that adds a new dimension to wonky rotations, and fast cast time means it scales poorly with spell damage gear because base coefficient is low. In fact, Coefficient is low for ALL of our nukes, cooldown or no.

And no, Blizzard cannot and will not offer us numbers. Because their numbers are wrong, would be easily proven so, and would necessitate a lot of work on Blizzard's part to actually CORRECT the colossal errors they made with this spec.

Simply put, Blizzard takes the easy way out- Wanna know why they didn't listen to our AoE suggestions? Because it was easier to diddle the numbers a little and call it a day. They knew it didn't risk being OP because the mechanic sucks

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Q u o t e:
Question from someone who's been on-and-off reading these forums:

Has Blizzard released any internal testing numbers? I was hearing about Elemental Shamans complaining about low DPS since mid-beta and Blizzard's response was always that Ele Shamans were, if anything, doing too much DPS. Hella confusing.

Also, that said, what does Elemental Shaman scaling look like (as I can't find a good compendium of Ele Shaman stats yet)? That's not to say that if it is very good, then an Ele Shaman should spec Resto and wait to play Ele, just that it gives a little more credence to Blizzard's claims.

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There are two main problems with shaman dps.

Our reliance on other classes to provide buffs, and our complete lack of scaling outside of higher ranked spells. Without the necessary debuffs our damage drops completely, more so than most classes. Making it a pain when trying to dps outside of a raid. Also with the lack of scaling talents and spells, most of our damage gets seemingly capped out seeing as the only increase comes from raw spell power off gear and nothing else. This culminates into the spec falling over ~1000 under the top classes and almost useless in pvp.

We got the Patchwerk 25 man 3-min achievement by 1 second yesterday, and I was told that I held back the raid due to my poor DPS. Elemental shamans ARE being sat out, and being considered bad players by their guilds because they can't compete with anyone in dps. This is only going to get worse as time goes on. The Shamanism talent will not fix this, you need to make crit/haste useful somehow (hint, have it affect LvB in some useful way so its not a waste).

It's ok, they can take their sweet time.

I'd hazard a guess that they've come up with something but haven't announced it yet. I'm prepared to be vastly underwhelmed.

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Q u o t e:
We have looked at the issue some more and do have concerns that even after these changes that Elemental shaman damage will be too low.

I'll address the problem again when we have an idea for how we're going to fix it, but this is a "soon" fix not a "distant future" fix.

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While that is desirable, please don't just buff the damage.

The problem is threefold really:

a) Lack of proper scaling from secondary casting stats. (I could imagine Lava Burst being not a guaranteed critical hit anymore, and having some other sort of more creative bonus... or unchaining it from Flame Shock and made into a more unique mechanic, more distant from Conflagrate that also relieves our Shocks from pure DPS usage - the same problem we have with utility Totem of Wrath and AOE damage Magma Totem.)

b) Lack of early +hit. Easy as that. We need more viable mail.

c) The rotation is not a test of skill and should not be rewarded as much as something more complex like a Shadow Priest's or a Balance Druid's. Lava Burst should be reconsidered.

Take a look in here for more detailed information:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=13392290030&sid=1

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Q u o t e:
We have looked at the issue some more and do have concerns that even after these changes that Elemental shaman damage will be too low.

I'll address the problem again when we have an idea for how we're going to fix it, but this is a "soon" fix not a "distant future" fix.

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Thank you GC for taking a look at this. As you can see there have been alot of concerned ele's.

Quick question: have you and the rest of the team considered doing something about Lava Burst? The auto-crit, while fun, could be improved upon allow for it to scale with crit at least.

Thank you GC.

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Q u o t e:
We have looked at the issue some more and do have concerns that even after these changes that Elemental shaman damage will be too low.

I'll address the problem again when we have an idea for how we're going to fix it, but this is a "soon" fix not a "distant future" fix.

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Thank you for the continued responses, but PvE isn't the only area we are having a hard time in. In a battleground or I predict an areana we are more of a glass cannon than a mage is. Our survivability and ways to escape once we have been targeted are almost nonexistent. If I get say a rogue on me now he can completely shut me down and if he is mutiliate I don't even try and dispell. In many fights against rogues poison dispell has been made trivial.

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Q u o t e:
We have looked at the issue some more and do have concerns that even after these changes that Elemental shaman damage will be too low.

I'll address the problem again when we have an idea for how we're going to fix it, but this is a "soon" fix not a "distant future" fix.

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Thank you for the acknowledgement, GC. Please do us right, here. Don't give us the 500dps buff that would just "get us by"... give us the buff that puts right in the middle of the fight. We're currently waaay down the list.

Please don't just make us last by less.