hunters need to calm the hell down with the QQ. write 1000 post threads all you want, but the FACT is today's pve hunter in horrific blues is effortlessly out-dpsing any other class with gear tier or two higher, on trash and bosses. 10 min prep was nerfed so you cannot 2X 15 sec of AR, yet total CC immunity and crazy damage for 36 sec (using a Prep that's 3 min CD) is fine? go ahead and kill a hunter pet, see how far you get... while he is pumping 4000dps into you from 40 yards off.

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Q u o t e:
hunters need to calm the hell down with the QQ. write 1000 post threads all you want, but the FACT is today's pve hunter in horrific blues is effortlessly out-dpsing any other class with gear tier or two higher, on trash and bosses. 10 min prep was nerfed so you cannot 2X 15 sec of AR, yet total CC immunity and crazy damage for 36 sec (using a Prep that's 3 min CD) is fine? go ahead and kill a hunter pet, see how far you get... while he is pumping 4000dps into you from 40 yards off.

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And rogues need to calm the hell down with the QQ about PvE. You have a spec that has been parsed to do the same kind of damage as hunters but none of you wants to use it. Here you are doing it again, and in a PvP thread for that matter.

- Do hunters need their PvE damage brought down a bit? Yah probably.
- Do hunters need more survivability in arenas? Yah probably.
- Do rogues need to spec for max dips before whining about hunter dips? Most definitely.

To all the rogues crying about your DPS........

1. Get a nice set of daggers
2. Spec Assassination
3. Don't be absolutely horrible
4. ????
5. Profit?

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Q u o t e:
hunters need to calm the hell down with the QQ. write 1000 post threads all you want, but the FACT is today's pve hunter in horrific blues is effortlessly out-dpsing any other class with gear tier or two higher, on trash and bosses. 10 min prep was nerfed so you cannot 2X 15 sec of AR, yet total CC immunity and crazy damage for 36 sec (using a Prep that's 3 min CD) is fine? go ahead and kill a hunter pet, see how far you get... while he is pumping 4000dps into you from 40 yards off.

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PvE? This is an arena thread. Terrible troll is terrible.

Also, L2arena. Your lack of knowledge and skill is showing.

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Q u o t e:
To all the rogues crying about your DPS........

1. Get a nice set of daggers
2. Spec Assassination
3. Don't be absolutely horrible
4. ????
5. Profit?

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By the way, its not assassination that has been parsed at around 6k.

I've yet to meet a good combat rogue so..... just calls em like I sees em

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Q u o t e:
I've yet to meet a good combat rogue so..... just calls em like I sees em

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(not combat either)
I don't know why Im responding to this. Should just let bad rogues do their own homework.

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Q u o t e:

That isn't to say that there weren't some good responses in that thread, or that we don't understand the issues or aren't working on the problems. We do have some hunter PvE nerfs and PvP buffs we're working on and hope to be able to announce soon.

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GC, by soon, do you mean, hopefully implemented by next content patch? Also, would this include a potential change to freezing arrow to make it used by any hunter?

EDIT: zomg first?

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Q u o t e:
Those threads were an experiment. We were hoping to see what kind of ideas or consensus the players could come up with by riffing on each other. But I'm not sure we were 100% succesful in that regard. There were a lot of "Didn't read the previous 47 pages" responses that ended up then posting the same things over and over. As much work as it was for me to read the entire thread, I'm not sure many players actually ended up doing it, which defeats the purpose.

Because the purpose of these forums is not to have one-way (or even two-way) communication between the players and the devs. The purpose is to have a place where we can all talk to each other and it may be that 1000 thread posts are actually a barrier to that.

That isn't to say that there weren't some good responses in that thread, or that we don't understand the issues or aren't working on the problems. We do have some hunter PvE nerfs and PvP buffs we're working on and hope to be able to announce soon.

Where you will find me in disagreement is on the subject of hunter changes. It is absurd to say that we haven't made any attempt to address PvP concerns. They may not be the changes you would have made in our shoes, but the hunter class of LK looks dramatically different than the one of BC. It's fair to say that the changes aren't sufficient if you feel that way, but let's at least be precise; it's just silly to say no changes were made or that we ignored the issues.

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That made me happy. Thanks. But that PvE nerf kinda scares me, my pets have a hard enough time keeping aggro, maybe if you buff the effect of growl.

Although since you are still reading this thread (IDK know you would, or why i am.) Can you buff crabs? It think the CD of pin should be either 20 seconds or extend the duration to 6 seconds Without changing the damage. Anyone would wanna pick a Spider ver a Crab since its the same thing but a Spiders snare can be done more at a range (I think.) Plus a Crab is a tanking pet and should provide more better utility for protecting the Hunter.

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Q u o t e:


That made me happy. Thanks. But that PvE nerf kinda scares me, my pets have a hard enough time keeping aggro, maybe if you buff the effect of growl.

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He's talking about raiding DPS, not anything to do with pet aggro in particular.

there are not very many hunter nerfs left. what are you planning with pets? I'd also guess something with TBW/readiness

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Q u o t e:


He's talking about raiding DPS, not anything to do with pet aggro in particular.

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true, r riad DPS does seem a little high

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Q u o t e:
Those threads were an experiment. We were hoping to see what kind of ideas or consensus the players could come up with by riffing on each other. But I'm not sure we were 100% succesful in that regard. There were a lot of "Didn't read the previous 47 pages" responses that ended up then posting the same things over and over. As much work as it was for me to read the entire thread, I'm not sure many players actually ended up doing it, which defeats the purpose.

Because the purpose of these forums is not to have one-way (or even two-way) communication between the players and the devs. The purpose is to have a place where we can all talk to each other and it may be that 1000 thread posts are actually a barrier to that.

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For what it's worth, I applaud you for having the patience to read through that entire thread. But if your goal was to encourage discussion between players while keeping the developers in the loop you might want to try:

1) Instead of creating a single consolidated thread which many interpreted as, "come here and spill your guts." you might want to try creating a few (2-3?) threads focused on 2-3 specific issues. The specific issues shouldn't be too hard to pin down since having read that massive thread you should have a pretty good survey of what people consider to be the most pressing issues. This may help to curtail the thread from getting overly long.

2) Enforce post length and possibly post count limits. I know in your opening post of that thread you asked people to be as concise as possible but asking only goes so far which I'm sure you're aware. Having some hard limit on the post length (remember those essays you guys wrote while applying to college/grad school?) may agressively encourage(read: force) people to narrow down their responses to be more specific. In conjunction with the partitioning of issues into multiple threads, this could potentially keep the length of the thread down while helping to filter out the noise a bit. Shorter post/thread length might encourage(unfortunately no force here) people to read the whole thing before posting.

Anyway, before I derail the thread any further...

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Q u o t e:

That isn't to say that there weren't some good responses in that thread, or that we don't understand the issues or aren't working on the problems. We do have some hunter PvE nerfs and PvP buffs we're working on and hope to be able to announce soon.

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I'm sure people will be glad to hear changes are in the works, (hopefully the PvE nerf is BM centric but not quite "to the ground" as it were =P). In a bid of selfishness, I'd like to point out that unfortunately many of us don't share that genuine excitement you have over freezing arrow. As I'm sure has been stated many times before, that ability just fails to deliver on what many would consider should be one of the pinnacle abilities of the class. Please fix =P.

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Q u o t e:


Kill the pet.

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oh, sure let me do that really quick.

wait, im getting my spells pushed back.
wait a second, the pet is doing it too.

omg, wait another second, i cant freeze it to do my damage (hint: frost mages rely on targets being frozen to do anything, damage included..........literally, take a look at the tooltip on icelance)

crap, this thing isnt dying because i cant do any damage and its lick wounds is putting out more healing than damage i can possibly hope to put out with the above three things.

i also have viper sting ticking
i also have cloth armor
i also have lower HP than anyone else

and to top it all off, the hunter's druid is healing the damned thing.

please, tell me how it is im supposed to kill that pet realistically (without taking 50% of my HP in the meantime)

the answer: you cant, unless the hunter sucks at his class, or the druid he is playing with has downs syndrome.

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Q u o t e:


oh, sure let me do that really quick.

wait, im getting my spells pushed back.
wait a second, the pet is doing it too.

omg, wait another second, i cant freeze it to do my damage (hint: frost mages rely on targets being frozen to do anything, damage included..........literally, take a look at the tooltip on icelance)

crap, this thing isnt dying because i cant do any damage and its lick wounds is putting out more healing than damage i can possibly hope to put out with the above three things.

i also have viper sting ticking
i also have cloth armor
i also have lower HP than anyone else

and to top it all off, the hunter's druid is healing the damned thing.

please, tell me how it is im supposed to kill that pet realistically (without taking 50% of my HP in the meantime)

the answer: you cant, unless the hunter sucks at his class, or the druid he is playing with has downs syndrome.

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First of all, it's only 1 secondof pushback to your casts now. The new spell pushback mechanics make it virtually nonexistent. Notice I said virtually. It sounds like you don't understand how to play your class in arena well either. You're not supposed to stand there infront of the hunter trying to dps his pet down with fireballs, frostbolts, and arcane missles. Like I said before... ALL THIS this that you have mentioned has been dealt with and overcome by everyone for the past 4 seasons.

LOLVIPERSTING?!?! Seriously?

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Q u o t e:
Where you will find me in disagreement is on the subject of hunter changes. It is absurd to say that we haven't made any attempt to address PvP concerns. They may not be the changes you would have made in our shoes, but the hunter class of LK looks dramatically different than the one of BC. It's fair to say that the changes aren't sufficient if you feel that way, but let's at least be precise; it's just silly to say no changes were made or that we ignored the issues.

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No disrespect but the PVP changes blizzard has made to hunters over the past couple years have almost never been right, to the point of being downright ignorant of the class demands and mechanics. Granted you haven't been overseeing the design of classes for that period of time but i think the lack of acknowledgment of those folly's is what overshadows our gratefulness for some of the changes that have improved the class (mostly from a pve aspect mind you).

The history of our class has always involved a massive shortfall on one end of the spectrum in exchange for the other, you give a little take away alot which never inspires much faith in your decisions. I'm assuming this is why you're delaying on revealing these "tweaks", because they'll probably be a very substantial pve nerf in exchange for a mediocre probably(forgive the cynicism but it'll stop when you listen to players, by you i mean you and whoever else attends to our class) laughable pvp "buff" (used loosely).

None of the threads on hunter issues seem to get any detailed acknowledgment of issues like other classes, in other words your responses are vague and undetailed and i guess what we're expecting is an analysis of common issues brought up and why you agree/disagree with said issue(you can't say there isn't common themes).

You've agreed to be more proactive about making changes that's great, so after months of beta testing a month of live testing we are a week away from a new arena season and only slightly better off, though in many respects worst off than we were. How are we as players suppose to respect your commitment? Will you provide us something to believe in? Like you said your credibility is on the line with this though some of it is already slipping away.

Wait...

People still play hunters? Judging from the look of Dalaran most hours I thought they were a dying breed.

We are a dying breed. I don't see many Hunter's playing on my server either. The players must have left it to the chinese farmers and got the hell out of dodge. :P