World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this?

Mataus

< stalk and kill >

Dalvengyr

20. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/06/2008 05:32:24 PM PST

Q u o t e:

There is absolutely no reason to troll. I am sure priests can heal quite well without it. Look at the number of Improved Divine Spirit priests there were in the last expansion. Hell, I was actively discouraged from speccing into Circle of Healing by my guild during TBC.

If you take at a look at the priest holy tree, this cool down guts a spell we had to spend 41 talent points to get. That is a lot of investment into a spell that will now be ineffectual. CoH heals too little on a single cast to make it a reliable as a raid saver.

I understand Blizzard is nerfing CoH because it is too powerful as a smart heal and many players were using it too much. It just did not fit Blizzard's vision of priests to have them too reliant on one spell.

Being the "versatile" healer just seems to mean "second-best" healer for a lot of players. Personally, I don't believe it. I like having the most spells to cover the most situations.

But, I am painfully aware how strong player perceptions are. Remember Lolret? I'd hate for this toon (and class) just to end up being the healer invited to raids only if no one else is available. That does not seem to be much of a niche to me.

I agree there's no reason to troll, but saying that a 6 second cooldown will destroy your healing ability is a bit short-sighted in my opinion. Shamans spend 51 points to get a crappy heal/hot that has a 6 second cooldown. It's nowhere near as good as CoH, but we deal with a 6 second cooldown. Chain Heal has a cast time and thus has a 2-2.5s "cooldown." I think a lot of priests are scared of change and I understand that. But instead of being afraid of not being able to use CoH, think of it as an opportunity to play with other spells.

Really as it stands now, CoH has a 1.5 s cooldown (GCD). If it is increased to 6 seconds, that's only a 4.5 s increase (or 3 GCD's). It sounds horrible now, but I think you'll see you can still cast it A LOT. I know when I first got riptide, I was like OMG THIS SPELL SUCKS... WHY DOES IT HAVE A COOLDOWN QQQQQQQ. lol So I totally know how you feel. But you know what? Riptide is REALLY nice even with a 6 s cooldown. It fits a hole that shamans had in their healing. It's not even a powerful spell, it's not even mana efficient, but it's something I've grown to love.

In short, a 6 second cooldown isn't horrible and I think all the priests that are scared of it will realize it isn't really a big deal and they'll continue to be valued/desired anyways.

Larssen

< Entropy >

Frostmourne

21. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/06/2008 06:23:52 PM PST

It's weird how WG gets nerfed like COH when COH is VASTLY superior

Etsuko

Scarlet Crusade

22. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/06/2008 07:33:56 PM PST

Q u o t e:
It's weird how WG gets nerfed like COH when COH is VASTLY superior

Why do you care? Wild Growth is:

1- a 7sec healing over time AoE spell, with a (future) 6sec CD.
2. trees don't spam it.
3. it doesn't represent 70-80% of your total healing, nor the majority of the total raid healing.
4. I'd guess if you use it as much as Priest use CoH, you are doing something wrong.

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Mahatma Gandhi
[Etsuko - Shaman] [Nogami - Druid ] [Feufolet - Mage] [Saeko - Hunter]

Loladin

Nordrassil

23. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/06/2008 09:41:48 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Why do you care? Wild Growth is:

1- a 7sec healing over time AoE spell, with a (future) 6sec CD.
2. trees don't spam it.
3. it doesn't represent 70-80% of your total healing, nor the majority of the total raid healing.
4. I'd guess if you use it as much as Priest use CoH, you are doing something wrong.

1: Gets overwritten lots - did I mention LOTS
2: You gotta spam it because the targeting sucks - smart HoT = Retarded...
3: 20-30% without it we WILL be gimped
4: Look at some WWS parses, we don't, but the fact of the matter is it is nice to have when needed, and a nerf is still a nerf.

Larkhill

< Asylum >

Onyxia

24. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/06/2008 10:17:01 PM PST

You leave my Wild Growth alone. Lazy Healers Unite!

No but really, smart heals are great and all but it makes it a bit too easy. I've literally told me raids/heroic groups to stack up whenever possible and ill just wild growth spam while the pally/shaman do their thing.

i grind therefore i am

Etsuko

Scarlet Crusade

25. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/06/2008 11:07:10 PM PST

Q u o t e:
1: Gets overwritten lots - did I mention LOTS
2: You gotta spam it because the targeting sucks - smart HoT = Retarded...
3: 20-30% without it we WILL be gimped
4: Look at some WWS parses, we don't, but the fact of the matter is it is nice to have when needed, and a nerf is still a nerf.

You can argue all you want, Resto Druids don't use it like Priest spam CoH. Addind a 6sec CD to WG will not change Druids' rotation whatsoever.

The weak can never forgive. Forgiveness is the attribute of the strong. -Mahatma Gandhi
[Etsuko - Shaman] [Nogami - Druid ] [Feufolet - Mage] [Saeko - Hunter]

Cassiira

< Infernal Affairs >

Moonrunner

26. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 04:06:49 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Ya but it just happens to bounce to 6 people, and have a total heal output much greater than COH

I think you'e been listening to scary stories about the CH Boogie Man. The CH that is in game is nothing like the one you describe.

A lot of AP - Plenty of HR - Tons of Crit - Balls Deep Armor Pen.
Paisy is my forums apprentice. Be less jealous.

Loveth

< Summit >

Blackwater Raiders

27. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 04:43:23 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Really as it stands now, CoH has a 1.5 s cooldown (GCD). If it is increased to 6 seconds, that's only a 4.5 s increase (or 3 GCD's). It sounds horrible now, but I think you'll see you can still cast it A LOT. I know when I first got riptide, I was like OMG THIS SPELL SUCKS... WHY DOES IT HAVE A COOLDOWN QQQQQQQ. lol So I totally know how you feel. But you know what? Riptide is REALLY nice even with a 6 s cooldown. It fits a hole that shamans had in their healing. It's not even a powerful spell, it's not even mana efficient, but it's something I've grown to love.

A 1.5s GCD can be reduced to a 1 s GCD through haste. A 6 sec CD can not be reduced by haste. So it actually turns into a reduction in it's healing ability by close to 85%.

" A priest is a person interested in either real gods in an imaginary world or imaginary gods in a real world." -Punchinella, Priest Forums

<3th / Galleigh

Ayania

< DaKor >

Executus

28. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 08:39:37 AM PST

I agree. I wish they would remove all smart heals from the game (CH, COH, WG, PoM, etc.).

Pharmacy

Shadowmoon

29. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:16:03 AM PST

Um, icetomb is extremely easy to heal through. As soon as someone starts taking dmg, flash heal them. All it takes is 1 heal to make sure they don't die, then heal them to full.

Mataus

< stalk and kill >

Dalvengyr

30. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:24:31 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Um, icetomb is extremely easy to heal through. As soon as someone starts taking dmg, flash heal them. All it takes is 1 heal to make sure they don't die, then heal them to full.

lol I'm glad someone else pointed this out. I was thinking the same thing when I read it and just never got around to posting.

PS: Is everyone else having to relog into these forums over and over (and thus losing posts they make?) I just copy all my posts now before posting.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

31. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:35:15 AM PST

I'm not sure why we need to keep starting threads on the same issue, but since you seem to have trouble finding our thoughts on the issue of smart healing, I will offer them again.

The old model of targeting a group out of a raid to heal it goes against one of the changes we tried to make for Lich King, which is that the raid structure matters, but the party structure within the raid doesn't. Almost all buff are raid-wide now, so we didn't want raiders to have to structure their groups just around things like Circle of Healing. "Um, can you put the MT and OT in the same group please, so CoH can get them both?" That sort of thing.

One of the things we wanted to do was give players more flexibility in how they set up their raids. This extends to your UI -- if you like to put the tanks in a separate part of your UI, or organize things by class or functional role instead of group, you can do that without having to worry (so much) about who is in what group.

We couldn't get rid of the group concept for every spell - Mana Tide is one example. But we have gotten rid of a lot of them.

We did ask all of the class designers and almost everyone on the WoW team who plays a raiding priest, and to a person they all thought the cooldown was a better solution than removing the smart component of the heal.

I will say again, if one spell (talented at that) is what makes the difference between you A) having fun, B) being able to heal competitively, or C) being brought to a raid at all, that is a much bigger problem than anything CoH itself does.

Loladin

Nordrassil

32. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:40:51 AM PST

Q u o t e:
I'm not sure why we need to keep starting threads on the same issue, but since you seem to have trouble finding our thoughts on the issue of smart healing, I will offer them again.

The old model of targeting a group out of a raid to heal it goes against one of the changes we tried to make for Lich King, which is that the raid structure matters, but the party structure within the raid doesn't. Almost all buff are raid-wide now, so we didn't want raiders to have to structure their groups just around things like Circle of Healing. "Um, can you put the MT and OT in the same group please, so CoH can get them both?" That sort of thing.

One of the things we wanted to do was give players more flexibility in how they set up their raids. This extends to your UI -- if you like to put the tanks in a separate part of your UI, or organize things by class or functional role instead of group, you can do that without having to worry (so much) about who is in what group.

We couldn't get rid of the group concept for every spell - Mana Tide is one example. But we have gotten rid of a lot of them.

We did ask all of the class designers and almost everyone on the WoW team who plays a raiding priest, and to a person they all thought the cooldown was a better solution than removing the smart component of the heal.

I will say again, if one spell (talented at that) is what makes the difference between you A) having fun, B) being able to heal competitively, or C) being brought to a raid at all, that is a much bigger problem than anything CoH itself does.

Yup - thanks and Mana Tide has already earned Resto Shaman at least two raid spots.

Gnoid

< Lunacy >

Proudmoore

33. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:44:13 AM PST

Q u o t e:
I'm not sure why we need to keep starting threads on the same issue, but since you seem to have trouble finding our thoughts on the issue of smart healing, I will offer them again.

The old model of targeting a group out of a raid to heal it goes against one of the changes we tried to make for Lich King, which is that the raid structure matters, but the party structure within the raid doesn't. Almost all buff are raid-wide now, so we didn't want raiders to have to structure their groups just around things like Circle of Healing. "Um, can you put the MT and OT in the same group please, so CoH can get them both?" That sort of thing.

One of the things we wanted to do was give players more flexibility in how they set up their raids. This extends to your UI -- if you like to put the tanks in a separate part of your UI, or organize things by class or functional role instead of group, you can do that without having to worry (so much) about who is in what group.

We couldn't get rid of the group concept for every spell - Mana Tide is one example. But we have gotten rid of a lot of them.

We did ask all of the class designers and almost everyone on the WoW team who plays a raiding priest, and to a person they all thought the cooldown was a better solution than removing the smart component of the heal.

I will say again, if one spell (talented at that) is what makes the difference between you A) having fun, B) being able to heal competitively, or C) being brought to a raid at all, that is a much bigger problem than anything CoH itself does.

You do realize that if you do this, you will go back to the pre-3.0.2 raid composition. With Resto Shamans being the most liked healing class to bring to be able to heal a whole raid in less time than a cooldown on CoH/WG will be able to.

Right now, CoH/WG/CH are all on equal level. It just depends on the player who you bring that makes the difference. If a Resto Shaman is good and knows how to play his class and has the right gear, he can easily beat a Druid or Priest on effective healing meters. You can easily have a raid without requiring any of those 3 classes to be there to have a raid.

Being on equal footing makes raid composition a lot easier to manage since you don't have to depend on a certain class to be there to raid, and I thought that was the original intent with changing the whole buff system.

If you change how CoH/WG works, we'll go back to where we started.

Narff

< The Departed >

Kul Tiras

34. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:46:05 AM PST

I like the fact that Blizzard still thinks we spam CoH in all but a few situations, even after they killed downranking.

Loladin

Nordrassil

35. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:52:01 AM PST

Q u o t e:

You do realize that if you do this, you will go back to the pre-3.0.2 raid composition. With Resto Shamans being the most liked healing class to bring to be able to heal a whole raid in less time than a cooldown on CoH/WG will be able to.

Right now, CoH/WG/CH are all on equal level. It just depends on the player who you bring that makes the difference. If a Resto Shaman is good and knows how to play his class and has the right gear, he can easily beat a Druid or Priest on effective healing meters. You can easily have a raid without requiring any of those 3 classes to be there to have a raid.

Being on equal footing makes raid composition a lot easier to manage since you don't have to depend on a certain class to be there to raid, and I thought that was the original intent with changing the whole buff system.

If you change how CoH/WG works, we'll go back to where we started.

Yup - having a good reason to return to 3+ Shaman will be nice.

Maybe Druids will have a chance with Tier2 Guilds that like to have a battle Rez handy. Personally our raid doesn't count on battle rez's - if we did, we would be counting on one of our members failing, so brez is barely considered utility - it certainly won't earn a druid a spot over a Mana Tide Totem or a Pali Blessing.

Priests - I'm sorry, I don't know how they'll recover from this type of nerf, certainly CoH won't be worth counting on with anything longer than a 3 second cooldown, and Priest utility is even gimpier than druids...

Zergas

< Epidemic >

Altar of Storms

36. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 09:53:49 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Right now, CoH/WG/CH are all on equal level.

lolwut?

EDIT: Hey Ioladin start posting on your Main and maybe someone will listen to you.

EDIT2: I agree with GC. If you and your guild is so reliant on CoH that a nerf is going to ruin everything, you have much bigger problems.

[ Post edited by Zergas ]

Anathalt

< On a Friday Night >

Windrunner

37. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 10:02:54 AM PST

Can I get a comment on PoH and holy nova? Are they just not intended to be buttons for raids?

Narff

< The Departed >

Kul Tiras

38. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 10:04:20 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Can I get a comment on PoH and holy nova? Are they just not intended to be buttons for raids?

Party only. If they were targetable or a raid wide smart heal, then they would be used.

Edit:

Holy Nova is also limited by the radius around the Priest so not good for fights where you need to spread out.

[ Post edited by Narff ]

Ophiel

The Scryers

39. Re: Smart heals FAIL why can't Blizz see this 12/07/2008 10:05:53 AM PST

I'd love to see some of these WWS reports of these CoH spamming priests. If they even exist.

The devs who play priests regularly (all 2 of them) probably play Disc since it's shiny and new and they haven't realized it's crap yet. A cooldown on CoH doesn't matter to them, of course.

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