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  • Haomarush
  • 501. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:50:55 PM PST
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Still need to address our skill bloat.

Deterence should affect our pet too.

[ Post edited by Espio ]

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  • 502. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:52:33 PM PST
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Just saw the edit on the first post. Thank you.

[ Post edited by Entrapment ]

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  • 503. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:53:58 PM PST
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and here we go again................


Ig: "one of us got excepted to a major university"
Levidia: "accepted"
Dolan: "I'll post my pic when this thread reaches 26 pages"
Levidia: "Insecure nerd is insecure."
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  • 504. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:54:41 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
Still need to address our skill bloat.


"Since the advent of the Internet, the Earth's rotation has been powered primarily by English teachers rolling in their graves" -He, Skullcrusher
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  • Steamwheedle Cartel
  • 505. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:54:49 PM PST
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*puts away the Dom Perignon*

Engineering: The Forgotten Profession


Q u o t e:
You're a rogue. We can't trust you. We'll have to lend to you at subprime rates.
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  • Bladefist
  • 506. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:54:56 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
Hunters of all specs, and particularly Beastmaster, are doing too much damage in PvE.

We tested this a lot internally in beta and knew hunters were high but we hoped other classes would be able to catch up in a way they have as yet been unable to do. We want to be careful not to hurt hunter dps too much in PvP, so we’re taking most of the damage out of Steady Shot and Volley. Beastmaster hunters are in addition losing some of their pet dps. We still want BMs to have the best pets, but pet dps numbers are a little high at the moment. We are also still concerned about hunter survivability in PvP and taking the opportunity to jazz up Deterrence into something that looks and plays a little more interesting.

These are not all of the changes we are working on for hunters, but those changes we feel are ready for testing. We hope to get these changes up on the PTR so players will have a chance to test them out and respond before they go live.

1) Steady Shot – now only gains 10% of attack power as damage (down from 20%).
2) Volley – reduced the damage by about 30% for all ranks. Note that AE damage from many classes is very high right now and we are looking at all of them. Volley in particular had reached the point where some hunters were using it to the exclusion of most other attacks.
3) Readiness – no longer affects the cooldown of Bestial Wrath.
4) Deterrence – has been completely overhauled. It now allows you to deflect 100% of incoming melee or spell damage for 5 seconds, but prevents you from attacking while active. You still must be facing the attacker to deflect the damage (this is a limitation we are trying and might end up removing). 60 sec cooldown.
5) Kill Shot – cooldown reduced to 15 sec (from 35 sec).
6) Kindred Spirits – now only grants 3/6/9/12/15% pet damage.
7) Serpent’s Swiftness – now only grants 2/4/6/8/10% bonus attack speed to pet. (EDIT: Still grants the current bonus to the hunter.)
8) All hunter pet abilities with a cooldown longer than 30 sec have been moved off the global cooldown.
9) Growl— threat generation increased by 20% (same for Voidwalker Torment).
10) Call of the Wild – now benefits only the hunter and his or her pet.
11) Rake and Scorpid Poison – slightly nerfed to bring them into line with other pet abilities.
12) Spirit Strike – reduced the period on the dot so it will work better with Longevity.
Improved Tracking – now benefits damage to all included creature types as long as you are tracking one of them. You don’t have to swap around what you are tracking as much.
13) Aspect of the Wild – now raid-wide.

EDIT: The "only" on Serpent's Swiftness meant 10% pet attack speed instead of 20%. The hunter bonus is unchanged.



why make the group buffs hunter only, as a raid lead all that does is give me less reasons to bring a pure dps class to a raid

When I die I want you to cremate me and put my ashes in a etch-a-sketch so I can talk to you from the other side
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  • 507. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:55:13 PM PST
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I don't PvP, do I don't really have a strong opinion on the Deterrence change. Most of the changes I can see as needed. Hunters--BM Hunters at least--were consistently doing more damage than other classes. I think the proposed changes are, generally, okay but Blizz should reconsider the Steady Shot nerf. First, it will make assessing the current batch of nerfs difficult to gauge since you're mixing hunter nerfs with pet nerfs. Second, as many have commented, it will make it much harder for us to scale down the road, which concerns me much more than a slight dip in our current performance. Also, one of the reasons 50/21/0 is so strong right now is because there aren't any long fights in the game yet. Will we see Hunters changed to have better mana sustainability once those fights are added to the game?
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  • Laughing Skull
  • 508. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:56:30 PM PST
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http://wowwebstats.com/3icaqih4zfru5?s=389943-415362

http://www.gone19.com/mike/wow/bearwall_logo_3.jpg
MikeMo
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  • Sargeras
  • 509. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:56:51 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
Still need to address our skill bloat.

This.

For example: Make deterrence remove all stuns and movement impairing effects and grant immunity to them for its duration, and then delete Master's Call. That would go a long way in making hunters less prone to lockdown+nuke.
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Ghostcrawler
Blizzard Poster
  • 510. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:56:56 PM PST
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Sorry for the confusion on Serpent's Swiftness. We are not changing its effect on the hunter at all. The nerf just applies to the pet attack speed increase. Hunter 20%. Pet 10%.


Q u o t e:
You need to let someone else deliver bad news for a while, lest your bad PR reach critical levels.


It goes with the territory. I'm a game designer. I'm not a PR guy, which I think is pretty evident from my posts. :)

There is a time-honored tradition in the WoW community of attacking the messenger when you don't like the message. Some players are always going to take nerfs personally, and I'm not sure there is much we can do about that except make sure we understand their concerns, which I try to do.

The QQ and trolling don't really bother me, though we do try and delete it and ban repeat offenders so they get the message about the kinds of posts we will tolerate here. You don't have to be all sunshine and roses and agree with everything we do. But you have to disagree in a civil manner. If you can't help yourself, my advice is to read and not post.

Our job is to make the game fun, and part of that includes trying to keep it balanced. Sometimes balance requires buffs and sometimes it requires nerfs. Sometimes we need to overhaul mechanics. Rarely if ever will the entire community agree on those changes, and really that's not the goal. Players don't need to be burdened with trying to fix bugs or problems with the game. If however they want to give feedback, we provide these forums, and we're grateful for the feedback we get. The alternative is to just see the changes in the patch notes, sans explanation or opporunity for response. We prefer this way, though it may may feel like a wild ride at times. :)
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  • Sargeras
  • 512. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:57:52 PM PST
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GC. Please Clarify the Deterrence effect?

Does it grant immunity to incoming attacks and spells or just absorbs damage ?

[ Post edited by Akumen ]

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  • 513. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:57:55 PM PST
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I still think the steady shot nerf is to much, wasn't alot of this damage coming from the use of readiness and TBW, I know them stopping that will bring it in line but having steady shot get hit so hard just looks like it will be to much of a nerf, but I will have to test it out when it comes out on ptr.
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  • 514. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:58:07 PM PST
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I personally feel that taking BW off of Readiness alone would have done alot to help cut down the damage. That, combined with the other (especially the steady shot) nerfs is a bit heavy handed in my opinion.

Giving us repairable ammo is great, but it won't do any good if we aren't comparable to other DPS classes.

Yes, I want to be comparable. Not above without trying. But this looks like its an awful lot awful fast.

Got the drood showing, but I do have a hunter.

[ Post edited by Sashira ]


"I'm a hunter. Strategy is for wimps and healers." - The Scout Report #8
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  • Smolderthorn
  • 515. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:58:34 PM PST
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Playing with the scaling of a class' bread and butter ability, however, nerfs the class substantially for the rest of the expansion.
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  • 516. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:58:54 PM PST
limit-reached limit-reached

Q u o t e:
Sorry for the confusion on Serpent's Swiftness. We are not changing its effect on the hunter at all. The nerf just applies to the pet attack speed increase. Hunter 20%. Pet 10%.



It goes with the territory. I'm a game designer. I'm not a PR guy, which I think is pretty evident from my posts. :)

There is a time-honored tradition in the WoW community of attacking the messenger when you don't like the message. Some players are always going to take nerfs personally, and I'm not sure there is much we can do about that except make sure we understand their concerns, which I try to do.

The QQ and trolling don't really bother me, though we do try and delete it and ban repeat offenders so they get the message about the kinds of posts we will tolerate here. You don't have to be all sunshine and roses and agree with everything we do. But you have to disagree in a civil manner. If you can't help yourself, my advice is to read and not post.

Our job is to make the game fun, and part of that includes trying to keep it balanced. Sometimes balance requires buffs and sometimes it requires nerfs. Sometimes we need to overhaul mechanics. Rarely if ever will the entire community agree on those changes, and really that's not the goal. Players don't need to be burdened with trying to fix bugs or problems with the game. If however they want to give feedback, we provide these forums, and we're grateful for the feedback we get. The alternative is to just see the changes in the patch notes, sans explanation or opporunity for response. We prefer this way, though it may may feel like a wild ride at times. :)


But you guys are taking the fun out of this game for hunters....period. Readiness not affecting TBW, that is bogus. I can see the nerf to some of the dmg, but either way you look at it, Blizz just keep nerfing hunters for what?

Look, the expansion has been out for less than a month. In that time people have been gearing up but people are far from max hit, max gear etc. Nerfing hunters based on preliminary numbers because other classes haven't reached max effectiveness. How do we know that these "top notch" guilds even have the very best gear on? The hunter may have the very best gear on, but maybe the rogue doesn't or the mage doesn't, or the insert X dps class.

Hunters are being nerfed too soon. Give people time to get gear and catch up and normalize their stats. I guarantee you that those guilds that had current content cleared in the first 2 weeks of the expansion did not have sufficient gear to say that everyone's gear was equal enough to say that hunters were doing better dps. Maybe we just itemize better and scale better with current gear.

I know the rogues and mages will disagree, but people just haven't had the time to get the right gear. Hell I worked on Ebon Blade faction just to get the Head Enchant and the Sword. Most people are busy getting stupid Dragon Mounts. So does that mean I need to be nerfed because I worked on getting the right enchants from faction rewards over getting faction for a stupid mount?

[ Post edited by Rexzoolza ]


~Seeker of the Magic Thong
~balance - a state of equilibrium or equipoise.

"So good to be loved by all the Devilsaur BM's! "
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  • Steamwheedle Cartel
  • 517. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:59:00 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
Our job is to make the game fun, and part of that includes trying to keep it balanced.
Not to derail (okay, screw it, I'm derailing), but can you pass this memo along to the Professions team?

Specifically whomever is in charge of Engineering?

kthx

Engineering: The Forgotten Profession


Q u o t e:
You're a rogue. We can't trust you. We'll have to lend to you at subprime rates.
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  • Farstriders
  • 518. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:59:31 PM PST
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GC,

I really do see that we Hunters are owning the damage meters right now, I ran Nexus last night will a party of 2 80's and 2 71's and I out DPS'ed all of them doing 1700 dps and the next closest doing 800 to 1000, and I am poorly equiped right now. The changes don't look that drastic SO FAR, but please also consider this. Hunters are at a real dis-advantage doing anything PVP, is it really that bad that we give up on PVP and own the PVE encounters?
Being asked to run instances and raids and not being viable in PVP encounters seems like a good trade off,
Getting ganked by a warrior/Rogue combo and having them apply constant sap's and stuns until I am dead isn't what I would consider a good time. But this looks like it is already going to happen so I will stop QQ'ing about it. And if the changes affect me to much I will just make my DK my main and use the Hunter to farm. Oh well

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  • Garithos
  • 519. Re: Upcoming Hunter Changes   12/09/2008 12:59:58 PM PST
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Q u o t e:
Playing with the scaling of a class' bread and butter ability, however, nerfs the class substantially for the rest of the expansion.


This needs to be repeated over and over and over. Changing core abilities nerfs class scaling. I hope you have addressed this.
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