World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> DPS in Wotlk (Long)

Thalex

< Epic Adventurers >

Baelgun

20. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 06:42:02 AM PST

Q u o t e:

It really depends on what is in a group with me but usually:

CoE>Immolate>corruption>Chaos bolt>Incineratex3-4>Conflag

Do you PvP? From the look of what talents you picked, you have invested some talents into what most consider "PvP" talents (Soul Link, Master Summoner). I would take those points out of the Demo tree since they do not add anything to your DPS, and put them into Soul Leech and/or Imp Curse of Agony.

Since you have Molten Core, you should be dropping Curse of Agony almost exclusively to other curses (unless you have to toss a different one up). It ticks every 2 seconds, vice every 3 like Corruption. What this translates to is usually more uptime for Molten Core.

Initial cast rotation should look something like Immo -> CoA -> Corruption -> Chaos Bolt -> Incin xwhatever.
For more burst on lower health mobs: Chaos Bolt >> Immo >> Conflag >> Incin x3 (if its still alive).

Roktar

Firetree

21. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 06:57:39 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Do you PvP? From the look of what talents you picked, you have invested some talents into what most consider "PvP" talents (Soul Link, Master Summoner). I would take those points out of the Demo tree since they do not add anything to your DPS, and put them into Soul Leech and/or Imp Curse of Agony.

Since you have Molten Core, you should be dropping Curse of Agony almost exclusively to other curses (unless you have to toss a different one up). It ticks every 2 seconds, vice every 3 like Corruption. What this translates to is usually more uptime for Molten Core.

Initial cast rotation should look something like Immo -> CoA -> Corruption -> Chaos Bolt -> Incin xwhatever.
For more burst on lower health mobs: Chaos Bolt >> Immo >> Conflag >> Incin x3 (if its still alive).

Thanks for the advice and i will more than likely switch it up to taht. I was just trying to help my 5 man friend group out by putting up CoE due to our Spriest, Boomkin, lock combo. Disc priest, and Deathknight.

Thought if I put CoE up as a party our DPS would go up causing bosses to go down lol.

Now for Soul link, i have found it easier to quest has destruction with it because I can have mobs beat on me and take quite a bit less damage.

So i was using Corruption to make Molten Core proc, and then CoE for the added 10% damage. SO in effect ahve a 20% damgae increase right there.

"Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."

General George Smith Patton Jr.

Togarth

< Juggernaut >

Mal'Ganis

23. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 07:08:09 AM PST

Warlockck PvE damage is fine. Honestly they are performing as good as ever. Do some research into affliction and work on upgrading your gear.

[ Post edited by Togarth ]

Kevinwillis

< Shai Hulud >

Duskwood

24. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:26:19 AM PST

Are we talking 5 mans here, or actual raids? Because in all honesty, if you are losing to hybrids in raids, you are doing something wrong. Warlock dps is quite good at current gear levels. Im consistently in the top 5 as demo, which is probably our worst dps spec. I top meters at times too. Granted, all encounters are different, and some favor some classes over others, you should be able to do competitive dps. If you cant, then you are doing something wrong.

Arucity

< Edge of Madness >

Frostwolf

25. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:29:16 AM PST

If you can't find people that will take you, it's either because you aren't a good player or they aren't.

Which is not to say that warlocks don't have problems.

Secretly, I'm Calsifer the mage :D

Kevinwillis

< Shai Hulud >

Duskwood

26. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:34:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Thanks for the advice and i will more than likely switch it up to taht. I was just trying to help my 5 man friend group out by putting up CoE due to our Spriest, Boomkin, lock combo. Disc priest, and Deathknight.

Thought if I put CoE up as a party our DPS would go up causing bosses to go down lol.

Now for Soul link, i have found it easier to quest has destruction with it because I can have mobs beat on me and take quite a bit less damage.

So i was using Corruption to make Molten Core proc, and then CoE for the added 10% damage. SO in effect ahve a 20% damgae increase right there.

You dont need soul link to quest as a lock. You should also expect your dps to go down a bit if your pick up talents that help you quest. If your gonna put that many points into the demon tree, you really should have put points in unholy power. Imp hs, master summoner and fel dom are all much worse pve talents.

Ghostcrawler

Blizzard Poster

27. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:44:03 AM PST

We do want dps to be a lot closer than it was in BC (assuming equal gear and skill, which players always conveniently assume that they have). If it's not ther yet, we will get it there.

The goal is that nobody has a unique buff. The goal is that nobody has a buff or ability so amazing that they always earn raid spots, or that you stack them in a group in preference to other classes. Until we design encounters that can handle one of every spec, we don't want you to only take the specs with the best buffs (and woe be to the group in which there are two or three of you with the same spec in that situation).

Q u o t e:
Boomkins can innervate, resurrect, AWESOME Buff, aoe, sustain dps.....and I bring healthstones :( soulstones and etc. but that is about it.

Innervate and Rebirth are amazing abilities, true. But so are Soulstones, Health Stones and Summoning. I don't really see a lot of situations where raids are stacking druids because of Innervate or Rebirth though. To some extent, both of those abilities are those you ideally never want to use and which become increasingly less useful the closer the content gets to be on farm.

And ultimately, I really don't want to derail the thread into the pros and cons of all the various class abilities. That is a big discussion.

But we do want you to have room to take who you want without worrying so much about class abilities.

Siguror

< Inequity >

Blackrock

28. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:46:42 AM PST

Q u o t e:
The goal is that nobody has a unique buff. The goal is that nobody has a buff or ability so amazing that they always earn raid spots, or that you stack them in a group in preference to other classes. Until we design encounters that can handle one of every spec, we don't want you to only take the specs with the best buffs (and woe be to the group in which there are two or three of you with the same spec in that situation).

So you're going to spread around more of those Paladin buffs? And the other remaining unique buffs and debuffs?

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12454859614&postId=124532995092&sid=1#0

The optimist says: "My glass is half full."
The pessimist says: "My glass is half empty."
The cynic says: "Someone's been drinking from my glass."
The opportunist says: "Can I finish your drink?"

Arucity

< Edge of Madness >

Frostwolf

29. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:48:01 AM PST

Q u o t e:

But we do want you to have room to take who you want without worrying so much about class abilities.

I think that's going to be hard to do because people can't seem to see the broader picture. I see a lot of people assuming that extra utility is going to be useful. I also think people who raid will always be copying Elitist Jerks et. al., and because of that they will want to maximize their characters and raid groups without ever stopping to wonder if it's even necessary.

Good luck :)

Secretly, I'm Calsifer the mage :D

Vodar

< Silent Decay >

Archimonde

30. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:49:12 AM PST

Your SP & Crit are really low to be Raiding Destro.

Not even Kidding a Warlock in my guild was really frustrated with his DPS so he went and found an affliction spec that he enjoys and does double what his destro one did. All because of where his gear is at currently.

I think you're in the same boat. Go affliction. Try Haunt/Ruin Spec. You will suck on trash etc. but pull WAY more dps on bosses.

Here is the spec. Try it out. http://www.wowarmory.com/character-talents.xml?r=Archimonde&n=Novastormx

Tnek

Proudmoore

31. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:53:17 AM PST

Q u o t e:
The goal is that nobody has a unique buff.

Then why do mages still have 2 specs that provide the only crit buff?

We are FORCED to take at least 1 mage to all raids or we gimp ourselves.

Fimbulvetr

Proudmoore

32. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:56:17 AM PST

Q u o t e:

Then why do mages still have 2 specs that provide the only crit buff?

We are FORCED to take at least 1 mage to all raids or we gimp ourselves.

lol@ switching to a level 60 mage you clearly don't play to say that.

Tamira

Ravencrest

33. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:56:31 AM PST

Q u o t e:
We do want dps to be a lot closer than it was in BC (assuming equal gear and skill, which players always conveniently assume that they have). If it's not ther yet, we will get it there.

The goal is that nobody has a unique buff. The goal is that nobody has a buff or ability so amazing that they always earn raid spots, or that you stack them in a group in preference to other classes. Until we design encounters that can handle one of every spec, we don't want you to only take the specs with the best buffs (and woe be to the group in which there are two or three of you with the same spec in that situation).

Innervate and Rebirth are amazing abilities, true. But so are Soulstones, Health Stones and Summoning. I don't really see a lot of situations where raids are stacking druids because of Innervate or Rebirth though. To some extent, both of those abilities are those you ideally never want to use and which become increasingly less useful the closer the content gets to be on farm.

And ultimately, I really don't want to derail the thread into the pros and cons of all the various class abilities. That is a big discussion.

But we do want you to have room to take who you want without worrying so much about class abilities.

You just stated that Innervate and Rebirth are amazing, but you never want to use, and become used less, but the dimished use of those I aruge is far less than the diminished uses of soul stones and healthstones.

Not to mention you bring one warlock and you have 1 HS, and 1 SS and unlimited summons. You bring two, all you gain is a single SS. Where as with druids you bring 1, you get 1 innervate, and 1 rebirth, as well as either +5melee crit, +6% healing, or +13%spell dmg/+5%spell crit and +3% spell haste. Bring a second druid and you can get an extra of everything as long as they are a wide range of specs. That puts locks at a 3:1 dissadvantage to druids for getting into raids.

Anitabuph

Medivh

34. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 10:56:33 AM PST

I liked it a lot better when every class brought at least one unique thing to the raid.

Büla

< Blood Faith >

Gorgonnash

35. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 11:00:40 AM PST

Q u o t e:
I liked it a lot better when every class brought at least one unique thing to the raid.

I would like to see an encounter where you have to pick a large amount of lockboxes in a short period of time. Plx.

Hrothgarath

Bonechewer

36. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 11:03:52 AM PST

Q u o t e:
We do want dps to be a lot closer than it was in BC (assuming equal gear and skill, which players always conveniently assume that they have). If it's not ther yet, we will get it there.

The goal is that nobody has a unique buff. The goal is that nobody has a buff or ability so amazing that they always earn raid spots, or that you stack them in a group in preference to other classes. Until we design encounters that can handle one of every spec, we don't want you to only take the specs with the best buffs (and woe be to the group in which there are two or three of you with the same spec in that situation).

Innervate and Rebirth are amazing abilities, true. But so are Soulstones, Health Stones and Summoning. I don't really see a lot of situations where raids are stacking druids because of Innervate or Rebirth though. To some extent, both of those abilities are those you ideally never want to use and which become increasingly less useful the closer the content gets to be on farm.

And ultimately, I really don't want to derail the thread into the pros and cons of all the various class abilities. That is a big discussion.

But we do want you to have room to take who you want without worrying so much about class abilities.

For PvE the philosophy of bring the player not the class is a really good one. But that really only works in larger scale groups. For small scale things, such as pvp where roles are pretty much simplified from pve (tank, heal, dps/cc) to pvp, (mortal strike, cc, heals, mana drains and damage) I'm really concerned thy hybrid specs, such as Fera and Balance won't have a chance to be taken seriously. For most of Burning Crusade, hybrids had to spec to heal to be arena viable. Mostly because we offered no other utility beyond healing. This was almost always a case of bring the class, not the player....

H-ROTH 2200 Boomkin PVP http://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=67959

"YOU'RE LUCKY YOU'RE EVEN ALLOWED TO BUY WOTLK WITHOUT HAVING A PERSONAL RATING OF 2200." -"Kalgan"

Fjhull

< Adaptation >

Gul'dan

37. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 11:05:17 AM PST

Q u o t e:
We do want dps to be a lot closer than it was in BC (assuming equal gear and skill, which players always conveniently assume that they have). If it's not ther yet, we will get it there.

The goal is that nobody has a unique buff. The goal is that nobody has a buff or ability so amazing that they always earn raid spots, or that you stack them in a group in preference to other classes. Until we design encounters that can handle one of every spec, we don't want you to only take the specs with the best buffs (and woe be to the group in which there are two or three of you with the same spec in that situation).

Innervate and Rebirth are amazing abilities, true. But so are Soulstones, Health Stones and Summoning. I don't really see a lot of situations where raids are stacking druids because of Innervate or Rebirth though. To some extent, both of those abilities are those you ideally never want to use and which become increasingly less useful the closer the content gets to be on farm.

And ultimately, I really don't want to derail the thread into the pros and cons of all the various class abilities. That is a big discussion.

But we do want you to have room to take who you want without worrying so much about class abilities.

I think that one issue is that the BC model had hybrids bringing all of the buffs, and pure classes bringing almost none. While the raid buff stacking change made that less relevant, it hasn't changed otherwise. Hunters bring a single buff (depending on spec), while ret pallies or enhancement shamans or boomkins bring something like 7 each. While in a 25 man, the stacking rules make this not a big deal, in any sort of a smaller situation you're not going to have every buff and these have a huge effect.

Everyone is supposed to have very nearly equal damage (a variation of 5% or so). Why can't everyone have very nearly equal raid buffs? It won't affect 25 mans, but it'd sure be nice for 5 and 10 mans if you didn't have to look at an enhance shammy vs a hunter and see 20% or whatever +raid damage and about the same dps.

And of course, Kings, BoS, and Improved Scorch are still not cross-class buffs. Mark of the wild isn't, and that's not a big deal, but those other three are all HUGE.

[ Post edited by Fjhull ]

Aoes

< Insomnia >

Tichondrius

38. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 11:05:30 AM PST

Its about your spec, its bad for DPS.

There are 3 main specs atm for raiding as a warlock all of them are pretty much going to be the same on static fights(or close to it)

56/0/15 You need to pick all the stupid PvE talents not solo or pvp

0/41/30 Felguard + Emberstone(the powerhouse of destro right now)

0/30/40 +1 Buffed Imp with MS + Shadow and flame

The top of the destro tree brings almost no DPS for the talents invested past SnF they are better spent in Demo for larger gains.

Celdrin

< The Golden Order >

Madoran

39. Re: DPS in Wotlk (Long) 12/03/2008 11:07:17 AM PST

Q u o t e:
Rogues were supposed to bring a misdirect to raid, but a misdirect to what?? With all tanks being able to hold countless mobs at a time that talent proved to be dead. Rogues and locks having certain group buffs, or totems, or whatever, should stand a fighting chance to get into the top 5 dps spots. As my rogue I got top spot maybe 2-3 times in all of my TBC 25 man raiding. I say, cancel the raid wide buffs, and make them group specific again.

We misdirect to whomever is pissing us off at the time ! Or a dps class without a threat dump

But yes, tricks of the trade is a great threat boost to the tank. TotT, hit cooldowns and unload.

"Real stupidity beats artificial intelligence every time"

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