still the hardest job in the game thanks

if youre still so concerned, dps is actually a valid attribute to a good tank now, you might want to bring some more deeps, like trying to spec impale build insetad of having 5/5 shield spec, if it was just me, id stop talking about tps altogether and start talking about dps, its basically the same thing now anyway.

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Q u o t e:
still the hardest job in the game thanks

if youre still so concerned, dps is actually a valid attribute to a good tank now, you might want to bring some more deeps, like trying to spec impale build insetad of having 5/5 shield spec, if it was just me, id stop talking about tps altogether and start talking about dps, its basically the same thing now anyway.

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Your avatar is sexy.

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Q u o t e:
Just run any 5 man pug where the rogue is attacking a mob alone in the corner, the hunter is multi-shotting every pull, or your healer is running away in the opposite direction after getting an add. That ought to spice things up again.

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QFT....It is pugs like this that truly test the mettle (and patience) of a tank.

(I LOL'ed in RL)

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Q u o t e:
everything is too easy

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you guys have it easy as hell now (meaning tanks in general). tanking used to be an art form but im very happy with the changes. the other side of the picture you're not looking at is healing.

healing is still stressful at times. especially with all the lolaoe damage being thrown about. if you guys are having ezmode runs through heroics, you have your healers to thank for that. yeah, aoe healing was made easier for druids and priests (sorry pallies, i feel for you) but blizzard wants to limit the amount of 1-button mashing we are doing so the new toys may take a nerf.

anyways, blizz seems hell bent on tuning difficulty to healing. and if you guys are having it easy, its cuz you got some kick a$$ mofos running behind you.

oop...forgot to post on my shaman.

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Q u o t e:
HP, the stat that pretty much has always mattered the least has always been the epeen stat.

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It's the most effective stat for general survival post crit cap, but most effective doesn't mean stack at all costs, it just just has a somewhat higher value on items. For gems there are often no good synergy options, so in those cases you just use your most effective sat.

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Q u o t e:
still the hardest job in the game thanks

if youre still so concerned, dps is actually a valid attribute to a good tank now, you might want to bring some more deeps, like trying to spec impale build insetad of having 5/5 shield spec, if it was just me, id stop talking about tps altogether and start talking about dps, its basically the same thing now anyway.

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I wouldn't dump 5/5 Shield Spec (There isn't really any place to move more than two of the points to anyway)

This is the build I'm using.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAM00fZhZVItrx0zibIzsGo

Deep Wounds is amazing for Protection warriors I'm finding... Really!

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Q u o t e:
Threat was never the tanks job, it was the DPS's. Tanking has not changed nearly that much, what has changed is that we don't wipe on pugs and such so often because X person couldn't control their aggro.

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i completely disagree with this statement....it was always the tank job and still is but now its just EXTREMELY easy...i say this because if the tank didnt keep a high enough threat count then the dps would either have to, 1. slow down and the healers have to use more mana just to keep you alive and if theres an enrage timer then you have to kill the boss before the enrage...doing this required the tank to have enough threat to keep the dps from aggroing and getting themselves killed thereby losing a ton of dps... i agree though it is too easy now...although it has always been easy on druid tank but now theres no challenge...all we have to do is worry about our avoidance and health now..you can spam heroic strike now and have twice as much threat as the dps............

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Q u o t e:

I wouldn't dump 5/5 Shield Spec (There isn't really any place to move more than two of the points to anyway)

This is the build I'm using.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=LAM00fZhZVItrx0zibIzsGo

Deep Wounds is amazing for Protection warriors I'm finding... Really!

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mm i dont like losing cruelty and vigilance tbh, vigilance is very helpful towards aoe threat/patchwerk, and losing cruelty seems counteractive towards impale

first!

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Q u o t e:
first!

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You should be proud.

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Q u o t e:


You should be proud.

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I sense jealousy! :O

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Q u o t e:
first!

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Shunn... SHUNNNNN......

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Q u o t e:
We definitely wanted to make tanking, especially 5-player dungeons and the introductory raids, a little easier.

We also wanted to improve the AE-tanking capabilities of all tanks.

We don't think the threat game is what is fun about tanking. It's a largely invisible and confusing number that traditionally required a mod in order to be tracked. We do want tanks to care about threat (or else they just stack mitigation and blame threat on the rogue) and we want them to care about dps too.

Remember that the old Naxx was the pinnacle of 40-player raiding. The new Naxx was designed to be more like Karazhan, or even a litle easier, considering that some of the Kara fights (the dragons, Prince and Aran in particular) required a lot of coordination.

Ulduar and subsequent raids will be a step up in difficulty, and I would also expect to see a lot more of the "hard mode" challenges, like "3 drakes up." We want to give players a chance to really test their mettle and have "server first" mean something and all that. We just want to do it without shutting 90% of players out of the instances -- arguably one of the coolest aspects of the game considering all of the customized art and sound -- and especially not the first couple of raids.

If we're having this conversation about Icecrown, then I would admit we have a problem. :)

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I don't know, man... I understand all that, but we're not using any CC in 5-mans anymore, heroics included. The issue of threat (or lack thereof) is one thing, the trivialization of the game is another. I trusted and kept quoting Blizzard (well... you, mostly) to many people, saying it was meant to be easier in regular 5-mans. Then we started doing the lvl 80 heroics, and well... still no CC. AoE the place down. Made a very quck foray into Naxx (we're not harcore raiders, we'll get there soon enough), and the trash was easy. Heard guildies say "misleading" even. Misleading because then the bosses were a lot harder, at least by comparison.

So, AoE tanking gets a boost, then DPSers AoE, threat isn't supposed to be an issue anymore. Not sure this is teaching the right basics to newer players. Controlling mobs, learning to focus fire and watch your multi-mob abilities so as not to break CC is important. You're going to end up with people who don't know how to do that and blindly bash at things expecting the tank to control the mobs at all times. For some, they know how, but they'll just get lazy overtime, by not practicing their CC (or watching for it so as to avoid breaking it or to renew a CC).

I sometimes wish every class had a mandatory quest for every new ability they learn. Sort of like the death knights now.

I am seeing some reasonably tough boss fights in heroics wearing blue gear, but trash is a joke. Now we all know there was TOO MUCH trash in BC raids (hello SSC and TK), and I certainly wouldn't want that back, but I would expect to use some CC here and there in heroics. WTB legendary mode ? :P

The problem i am finding is that current 80 heroics feel like they are lvl 70 regular dungeons. They are not anything special or much more difficult then anything else in the game. I expected to have to do 80 regulars for a little bit to get geared enough to do heroics but once i hit 80 i didnt do anything on normal and have just done heroics. The lack of CC needed is also laughable nothing in the dungeons is a threat to the tank. If you have a half competent healer you really dont need to CC anything. Honestly I am little bored with the lack of pve content and the ease of it. There were several lvl 70 dungeons plus all the heroics and now it seems as if there is half of that much pve 5 player content to do.

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Q u o t e:
Ulduar and subsequent raids will be a step up in difficulty, and I would also expect to see a lot more of the "hard mode" challenges, like "3 drakes up." We want to give players a chance to really test their mettle and have "server first" mean something and all that. We just want to do it without shutting 90% of players out of the instances

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From a 90% player, I say Thanks.

For those that want a challenge, try acquiring some of the PvE achievements. Those look insane.

Actually CC sometimes feels counter producting. In Heroic AN today the ret pally repented some of the trash mobs and since they weren't tauntable they came out of CC hating the healer. Woulda been better for me to tank them all from the get go.

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Q u o t e:
Actually CC sometimes feels counter producting. In Heroic AN today the ret pally repented some of the trash mobs and since they weren't tauntable they came out of CC hating the healer. Woulda been better for me to tank them all from the get go.

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If that's too complicated for you, then I officially support making tanking difficult again to weed people like this out.

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Q u o t e:
The problem i am finding is that current 80 heroics feel like they are lvl 70 regular dungeons. They are not anything special or much more difficult then anything else in the game. I expected to have to do 80 regulars for a little bit to get geared enough to do heroics but once i hit 80 i didnt do anything on normal and have just done heroics. The lack of CC needed is also laughable nothing in the dungeons is a threat to the tank. If you have a half competent healer you really dont need to CC anything. Honestly I am little bored with the lack of pve content and the ease of it. There were several lvl 70 dungeons plus all the heroics and now it seems as if there is half of that much pve 5 player content to do.

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All true except where you said that the lack of CC needed is laughable.

Level 70 heroics were (for quite some time) amazingly long borefests of marking pulls, tanking them carefully, applying CC and DPSing down targets in order. Luckily, with the gradual addition of good entry-level gear, Prot Paladins became known for their ability to AoE tank, and thus "trivialize" the content, and healers were much relieved.

In WotLK, this preference was embraced. All tanks can AoE tank well. All DPS can deal some form of AoE damage. Healers all have some form of multi-target healing. In return, encounters often have dangerous spike moves that must be avoided or out-healed and there is a lot more AoE damage to players in the encounters. By doing this, Wrath makes players pay more attention to the game and less attention to their CC and other uninteresting elements. Encounters where CC is useful and necessary do exist, and their relative few number makes the idea more novel to the player.

This change has been a long time coming. Embrace it.