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Q u o t e:


Not to mention that it could be scaled to fit the same 5 second window as MP5.

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For example, on Sylph's character the ratio of total Spirit to total Spirit-based regen per 5 seconds is roughly 1.5:1.

Bliz could pick a ratio they feel is representative for level 80. Maybe fully geared from all release content. Then they could divide the Spirit stat on all gear by that.

*poof*

10 Spirit now is 10 resting MP5.
10 MP5 is still 10 always-on MP5.

They would just have to tweak percentages on things like Spiritual Guidance to keep similar gains.

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OR they could ditch MP5 altogether and give everyone a baseline conversion to use while in the five second rule. You know, like they already do; just more.

Good to hear. =)

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Q u o t e:


You said "Equip the item to see how your stats change".

I said "Equipping a BoE / BoP item to figure out if it's an upgrade may not be a good overall strategy".

Since you're throwing out instance rolls--something I don't believe the OP necessarily did--let's look at AH/BoE loot. Should we all buy everything on the AH we think might be upgrades so we can try it on to see if we're right?

Or take the reverse angle on that--BoE drops. Should we try all those on to figure out whether they're upgrades, thus soulbinding them so we can't auction the ones that don't turn out to be as useful as we'd hoped?

I submit the strategy you propose--"Try it on and see if you like what it does to your stats"--is suboptimal in a game with soulbinding items.

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You shouldn't be AH'ing items that are such small upgrades you can't tell without equipping

Ah'ing greens you find while lvling is phail and only 10-20% of them will be geared to your class .
If it does attain to you rclass and could be an upgrade omg you are such a terrible loss you can still vendor a piece which honestly won't be much of a loss. If you need to equip EVERYTHING you find to see if it helps you are bad.

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Q u o t e:


You shouldn't be AH'ing items that are such small upgrades you can't tell without equipping

Ah'ing greens you find while lvling is phail and only 10-20% of them will be geared to your class .
If it does attain to you rclass and could be an upgrade omg you are such a terrible loss you can still vendor a piece which honestly won't be much of a loss. If you need to equip EVERYTHING you find to see if it helps you are bad.

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Elbob:

I manage to identify upgrades on my toon pretty well. The OP mentioned that, when it comes to mana regen, identifying upgrades gets a bit trickier. I agree. As do other posters. As does GC, apparently.

I'm sorry to the OP that all you can contribute to the discussion is apparently "I don't think think this is hard. Me > you. Fail."

I'm sure GC knows the regen formulae and is capable of working them. But since even he is apparently angling to make things simpler--things you have no problem with--congratulations on beeing leeter than GC. You have now officially won WoW. No need to renew your subscription.

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Q u o t e:
60 and 70 were very different 80 maybe different yet again. And sry I must over looked your intense lvl 70 raiding gear.... O wait

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Yeah, it's not like you're talking about someone who knows anything about Priest mechanics, and certainly not someone whose Priest guide has been sticked in the Priest forums in one version or another for several years...

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Q u o t e:
mp5 is not effected by anything else

spirit/int is a combo just int is very little, but grants more maximum mana while spirit is more regen but no mana. If you can't tell an upgrade from not L2P, and im serious about that. Class mechanics are simple.

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The whole problem is that the other stats do straightforward things. You know what 1 STR gets you, no matter what. Same with 1 AGI, and 1 STA. There's no other weird relationship where one stat changes what another one does, but 1 SPI by itself doesn't tell you anything. You need to know your INT, the formula, the arcane constant values, and what talent spec/raid comp you're going to be using it in.

If one item has 30 INT/20 SPI, and another has 20 INT/30 SPI, bizzarely right now in most raid situations (and certain specs even without the raid group) the version with more INT is better for mana regen. So it's not simple at all, since to get maximum mana regen, you want less of the stat that gives mana regen.

The old system was clear. You get INT for a bigger mana pool and spell crit. You get SPI for mana regen. How much mana regen you would get was easy to figure out (Spirit / 4), and you could make a tradeoff decision on if getting that was worth some other stat.

Right now you can't tell what 67 Spirit does without either equipping the item, or a mod. Without having an INT value you can't tell what 67 Spirit does at all. That's not right.

(And hey, glad to see you here GC! :-) )

I would just like to see something simpler for casters. For melee classes, you typically either need strength or agility, and those equate to 1 or 2 attack power.

For a caster, intellect and spirit only benefit me in a similar way if I have talents or glyphs that can utilize those abilities.

Basically, most melee require stam for their survival stats. Casters need stam, and intellect, and sometimes spirit.

It's just a very peculiar dichotomy between the two branches of playstyle.

Not to talk too much, but it's most confusing for lower levels, where there's no gear with +AP or +SP on it. You just get raw stats, and a caster only does more damage or healing every other level as we acquire new abilities and we get our talents. Melee classes see the benefits much more steadily.

And lastly, can we make spell penetration useful? I must admit, I'm pretty jealous of melee with Armor Pen.

Sorry if my focus was more on damage and less on healing; I've been playing more shadow recently, but the arguments should still be valid between specs.

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Q u o t e:
This is something that is totally on our radar. Mana regen requires looking at a lot of different numbers and we'd like to simplify it, without losing any of the interesting gear options that players have.

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Where is the Spirit change we were promised?

You guys said you wanted to make it useful, but in fact, it is just as useless as it ever as been. Not only it is useless, but classes like Priests are now forced to pick up mp5 gears, because there just aren't that many healing cloth pieces with Spirit on them.

Let's not talk about Shamans and Paladins, they never had a use for it, and still don't. I don't see the point of putting Spirit on anything nowadays, serious, just delete this stat, and replace it by mp5.

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Q u o t e:


Elbob:

I manage to identify upgrades on my toon pretty well. The OP mentioned that, when it comes to mana regen, identifying upgrades gets a bit trickier. I agree. As do other posters. As does GC, apparently.

I'm sorry to the OP that all you can contribute to the discussion is apparently "I don't think think this is hard. Me > you. Fail."

I'm sure GC knows the regen formulae and is capable of working them. But since even he is apparently angling to make things simpler--things you have no problem with--congratulations on beeing leeter than GC. You have now officially won WoW. No need to renew your subscription.

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GC relates to the common player the average dunce of a wow player. Those are the people he addresses most because they are the biggest % of the subscribers. The game is not driven by good players that can weigh stats themselves obviously.... I never once compared myself to GC I'm sure he is a great player w/e doesnt really matter. Quest on Mr. kara champ. Because with people like you leading the way the game might actually look difficult to some people.

I never did the "I'm better then you" to the OP either I just said learn class mechanics.

Maybe they'll implement a two tier approach. Hardcore players can opt for Heroic Math.

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Q u o t e:
Maybe they'll implement a two tier approach. Hardcore players can opt for Heroic Math.

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Math is hard. With the formula and a calculator the formula for regen can be figured out by a 5th grader.
Or simply make rating buster default in blizz UI, or just go download it yourselves. OMG I IZ SCARED OF MODS.

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Q u o t e:


Math is hard. With the formula and a calculator the formula for regen can be figured out by a 5th grader.
Or simply make rating buster default in blizz UI, or just go download it yourselves. OMG I IZ SCARED OF MODS.

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Even though a bit asinine I do agree with this poster's sentiment. The math is required to make things scale and/or function properly. It isn't hard at all figure out. If you're lazy or incapable of making the calculations get the mod.

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Q u o t e:


Math is hard. With the formula and a calculator the formula for regen can be figured out by a 5th grader.
Or simply make rating buster default in blizz UI, or just go download it yourselves. OMG I IZ SCARED OF MODS.

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Not quite done trolling yet, eh?

I know I can't wait for the next version of World of Spreadsheets.

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Q u o t e:


Not quite done trolling yet, eh?

I know I can't wait for the next version of World of Spreadsheets.

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--------You-------------------------------Me----------------------Math people that love spread sheets
--------- V -------------------------------- V---------------------------------------------V
World of casualcraft -----------World of warcraft ---------------World of Spread sheets

WoCc - where we are all headed cause blizz is dumbing everything down to the point it takes lack of skill

WoW- the small % of decent players that enjoy hard content and difficulties to triumph and can figure things out for themselves like speccing and GEAR UPGRADES

WoSs- Stickied threads that are lots of numbers that you(given you aren't lying) wrote one yourself (or you wrote a pointless priest thread MIND CONTROL FUN ZOMG)

If someone who can do mere pre-algebra math has a slight advantage over someone who can't, there's nothing too wrong with that. Even the former people can just use one of the online calculators or ask someone else. There is a pattern now, from the removal of downranking to how PvP fights get catered to those with low attention spans who didn't want to have to intelligently chain the right abilities in a row to kill a healer. Maybe it's a design change directive from some corporate manager, but I can't say I approve.

I like this game overall, but I particularly prize the parts where intelligence or skill still matters, different from the parts where it is just like kill 10000+ mobs to reach 80 in a manner that a trained monkey could accomplish. There's such a thing as making it too easy.

I like that it takes a little math (or in some cases a lot) to figure this stuff out. I don't want blizzard to spoon feed me everything. Even if they did you would still, depending on your class, need to figure out things like - how much time do I stay out of the fsr in a typical fight - etc. But although a little streamlining would be ok - please quit simplifying things - they are getting to the point that they are to simple already. Players gear choices are still a metric on what type of player they are.

I am good at math. The fact that I either need a spreadsheet, a mod or equip the item to tell whether it is an upgrade shows that something went wrong. The current spirit formula is out of control.

Not to mention fun side effects such as INT being better for regen than SPI in many situations.