All good and balancing changes, but I do have one concern.

Why does Hand of Protection share the 30 second cooldown? I wasn't aware it was a balance concern. If anything, that's a nerf to Holy Paladins, which we all know they don't need.

CG, thx for the clarifications

can you elaborate on the mana return from JoW too please? lovin the new taunt idea. thanks for giving us a ranged pull + taunt

divine shield belongs deep in the holy tree. how many other classes that can heal have a single spell, that gives them immunity to damage, any detrimental effect, breaks any control spell, spell knock back and interupt

this change is purely pvp oriented, in pve a protection paladin would never use it due to threat loss
a holy would only use it if things got bad to save themselves from dieing
and a retribution paladin, who knew what he or she was doing would never need it to begin with
(speaking in a group situation)

speaking for pvp, the spell is and basically has always been outrageously unbalanced, in short just triple there health, i mean between their natural health, divine shield healing, and lay on hands, its like trying to kill something with i'm guessing 46k health (estimated with s5, excluding Lay on hands), that is not even taking into account the fact they wear plate. i am certain there are other factors i have not taken into account either

let me put my point into perspective, comparing ice block and divine shield, these two spells are basically the same, both grant damage immunity, remove all detrimental effects on the player, with only one spell players can cast to dispel them, the only difference is, while under divine shield paladins can move attack and cast spells. now think if a mage could cast spells while under the effect of ice block. even without being able to move it would be extremely unfair

Great news, THANKS FOR THE UPDATE GC. (Read first page guys, he updated it, can still HoP on others just not on self during the 30 seconds).


I wonder, does that mean the CD on HoP has actually been buffed down to 30 secs? that's nice.

-Fjordette


(FIRST before GC! ;)

Ok, while I don't like the name (ANOTHER HoJ???), I really like the fact that the taunt does minor holy damage. This is a really good solution both for ranged pulling/tagging issues for multiple specs (ret especially). Thanks

will the JoW % be a nerf to ret though, as we can easily be hurting for mana if something screws up, such as the judgment bug or if we use our anti-undead abilities

Thank you for clarifying the HoP issue. Does that mean that prot/ret paladins will have an increase in mana regeneration?

I still think tying AW and DS on the same cooldown is backwards, though. DS already reduces damage by 50% so AW would not do anything at all to significantly increase damage.

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Q u o t e:
the taunt is called Hand of Judgement. It has a 30 yard range and 8 sec cooldown. It does a bit of Holy damage so that you can break sheep or freezing traps to pull mobs.

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Awesome changes, woot for ret pull ability!

Off topic some-
Question regarding trap comment, does this mean traps are meant stay fragile and break on any damage, or am I just reading a bit to much into that statement. Sorry if i am.

I am curious how this works as in my understanding a shared cooldown means that the ability is not available or "grayed out" or "This ability is not ready yet." for XX seconds - regardless of self or other target.

Bad wording?

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Q u o t e:
I made some clarifications to my initial post.

You can use Hand of Protection during the internal cooldown, just not on yourself. The idea is to prevent the paladin from being able to combo damage immunity. We want you to still be able to use it on others.

The change to Judgements of the Pure is in addition to its current haste effects.

The taunt is called Hand of Judgement. It has a 30 yard range and 8 sec cooldown. It does a bit of Holy damage so that you can break sheep or freezing traps to pull mobs.

The change to Judgement of Wisdom was so Protection and Ret paladins (and Feral druids and whoever else) didn't feel like they were supposed to stack Int for mana, since there is none on their gear. We picked a number that shouldn't be a nerf to most Holy paladins, though it will mean that it won't keep scaling as your Int climbs, so I imagine it will be called a nerf anyway. :) We'll keep an eye on this -- perhaps adding an effect to a Holy talent or something to increase the return.

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So basically... Buffs all around except for the Divine Shield change?
... Are we to assume that Forebearance has been all but removed? I mean, with all abilities linked on the same 30 second CD, it seems like Forebearance would not be needed... Either that, or the cooldowns would not be needed.

Or is Forebearance still in play, it is just editted out of one ability to stop AW + anything while keeping AW usable in the same minute as DS?

Thanks for the clarifications thus far!.. It almost reminds me of the old days with Bubble + BoP a few seconds later... Ahh those were fun days.

WTB glyph that takes the taunt portion off the taunt and ups holy damage
the for the clarification GC =)

EDIT: editted for spelling

OMG, this makes my day))))

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Q u o t e:
I made some clarifications to my initial post.

You can use Hand of Protection during the internal cooldown, just not on yourself. The idea is to prevent the paladin from being able to combo damage immunity. We want you to still be able to use it on others.

The change to Judgements of the Pure is in addition to its current haste effects.

The taunt is called Hand of Judgement. It has a 30 yard range and 8 sec cooldown. It does a bit of Holy damage so that you can break sheep or freezing traps to pull mobs.

The change to Judgement of Wisdom was so Protection and Ret paladins (and Feral druids and whoever else) didn't feel like they were supposed to stack Int for mana, since there is none on their gear. We picked a number that shouldn't be a nerf to most Holy paladins, though it will mean that it won't keep scaling as your Int climbs, so I imagine it will be called a nerf anyway. :) We'll keep an eye on this -- perhaps adding an effect to a Holy talent or something to increase the return.

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GC, I want to hug you, in a non-gay way.

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Q u o t e:


I'm not necessarily OK with it being simply better than the current situation, which we all admit makes the skill useless in many situations.

If they are taking the time now to adjust it, I'm sure that they want to get it right. Honestly I don't see a need for the combined cooldown given the new penalty on the bubble, I mean if you are going to waste your wings while bubbled, that's your own issue. However, even if they don't want that, there are better solutions that don't have the nasty side effects to protection specs wanting to shield wall and to the general use hand of protection, which still doesn't prevent a winged and protected pally anyhow.

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I am completely in the Paladin Gap Closer fan club. I completely agree that we need that, but won't agree that AW / HoP trade-off is the end of the world. At the end of the day, people will know when to pop them and when not to. If they do, and it doesn't work out as planned it isn't the end of the world. Just survive until cooldown is gone.

Anyone who opens up by popping wings or does it too early when HoP may still be needed deserves to stay in the lower rankings. If your team is applying some pressure though, they wings may just give you that extra OOMPH needed to drop someone or but them into a heavy defense.

Is it optimal that this is happening? Probably not. Will I take it if it adds more push for a gap-closer? Yes.

I love the idea of Hand of Judgement. Can we please have a different name, one that doesn't have the same acronym as another of our spells?

So is JoW staying at the same percent and just going base? Did I miss an update somewhere with the actual value?