Hi,

I and few of my friend rogues have dinged to 80.. Naturaly we all jumped into pug/guild nax, violet heroic instnces, trying to get some gear. few problems we found;

No one wants rogue why? because our dps in PVE currently is broken, being 5th, 6th, on dm is pretty pathetic considering all participants wear same mix of gear. I found my self personaly kicked out of group few times because no one wants worthless class in 5 man group. i don't blame them.

I tried re-spec my self, combat/mut/hem.. nothing really adds up to dps other classes do.. i mean prot warrior could easily outdps a rogue ...

also our dodge rate went down to 17% persent from 35%?
my crit rates went from %36 to 19%.. i realize i have to itemize my self but sill that low? i would have to have a hatefull set to get ack where i used to outdps everything that moved.

FoK is a great display ability but why would rogues sit there to gain 50 energy just to spam that and get worthless hit numbers? Whos idea was that?

Tricks and trade ? are you serous? does anyone use this? i mean especially on pulls? honestly? this is a joke imo.

anyway there are not alot of 80 level rogues so it might take some time for rogues to start realizing how great their class is.. maybe blizz will do something.

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Q u o t e:
Hi,

I and few of my friend rogues have dinged to 80.. Naturaly we all jumped into pug/guild nax, violet heroic instnces, trying to get some gear. few problems we found;

No one wants rogue why? because our dps in PVE currently is broken, being 5th, 6th, on dm is pretty pathetic considering all participants wear same mix of gear. I found my self personaly kicked out of group few times because no one wants worthless class in 5 man group. i don't blame them.

I tried re-spec my self, combat/mut/hem.. nothing really adds up to dps other classes do.. i mean prot warrior could easily outdps a rogue ...

also our dodge rate went down to 17% persent from 35%?
my crit rates went from %36 to 19%.. i realize i have to itemize my self but sill that low? i would have to have a hatefull set to get ack where i used to outdps everything that moved.

FoK is a great display ability but why would rogues sit there to gain 50 energy just to spam that and get worthless hit numbers? Whos idea was that?

Tricks and trade ? are you serous? does anyone use this? i mean especially on pulls? honestly? this is a joke imo.

anyway there are not alot of 80 level rogues so it might take some time for rogues to start realizing how great their class is.. maybe blizz will do something.

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Dude ur scaring me.
I knew it was bad.... but that bad? Should I continue to level lol? I really am contemplating leveling or ordering a pizza and watching some rental dvd's... what would I be better off doing?=/ Im leaning towards the pizza and dvd's cause I can watch stuff explode and it hurts my eyes less then all the Aoe's everyone spams in game.

Dude ur level 80 and ur cirt is like 20% .... my friends level 70 Druid has like 40% crit chance with trash gear on ^^ wtf.

Your reputation gain with any and all factions is awful. This is the first thing I looked for the see if you have any legitimate raiding experience, btw.

Your gear is awful. Is that a full vengeful set? Are you so stuck on losing your precious enchants and gems that you won't re-gear with better items until you get a full set of welfares? For goodness sake you have 100 hit rating and 0 expertise (to which scales higher and better)

Your crit rate problem is obvious when considering you haven't even tried to upgrade your gear with all the delicious blues they have around at 77+. You can't ask for a rise in crit rate when you haven't bothered to gear yourself with the new items that are available.

You're hopping into instances with pvp. Not just pvp, but level 70 pvp gear and you're wondering why your stats aren't topping off and why you're low in damage compared to people who've geared themselves up through out their entire trip in WotLK.

And on that note 5 mans have been and will always be as follows: If you have a good tank and good heals, the well geared are who gets picked to fill the dps slot. There is no order. Every single person has not come together to huddle about rogues and decided all at the same time to not bring them.







Saying that rogues aren't getting invited is just silly. This is especially more-so when this is talking about a pug which usual make up concerns with whatever tank and whatever dps that can be found.

And on that note. Seriously re-gear yourself. Go get some lowly quest greens that have hit and expertise and see if that doesn't raise your functionality in raids. I find it hard that anybody can take your statements seriously if you're too stubborn to give up stamina or agility for the crit rate that almost every single piece of gear that Northrend gives.

You would do yourself a great service if you familiarized yourself with the Elitist Jerks forums and spreadsheet sites like shadowpanther if you're having a hard time figuring out what's good and what's not. Read PvE guides on the forums and see where you're going wrong. The damage capabilties are there for rogues, but right now we don't scale nearly as well as certain class/specs, and that's the way it is.

We still provide a great deal of utility, and Tricks of the Trade is one of the best skills you can use in terms of adding to a group's effectiveness. Think of it this way, Tricks of the Trade allows you to go ALL OUT on multiple targets for 6 secs and give all the threat you would have received to the tank.

Imagine a warrior pulls 4 elites in a normal instance - with tricks you can use it on him, pop blade flurry, trinket, and killing spree and follow that up with a Fan of Knives before the 6 secs is over. This will dump 20-30k threat onto your tank on multiple targets. This is huge for PvE and is useful in many instances. When I'm in groups I use Tricks every time it's up just to help the tank out that much more.

I'm sorry I'm running out of steam here but my bottom line is that you actually need to work to better yourself in PvE in order to succeed in this game, at least until your new pvp stuff comes out. Until then you won't be topping any charts any time soon, and that's just how it is.

Your gear is mostly level 70 pvp crap. Why are you surprised that you're at the bottom of damage charts in level 80 heroics and naxx?

Couple of months ago, if a rogue showed up to a BC heroic wearing lvl 60 pvp crap, I'd kick them out of the group too.

Just get some Wrath gear, run some regular instances, finish some long quest lines for best quest rewards. This isn't rocket science.

Not so EZ anymore?

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Q u o t e:

i mean prot warrior could easily outdps a rogue ...

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...fascinating read.

You're wearing lvl 70 gear. Seriously man, ratings scale inversely with level. Pick up some 80 crap. Even quest gear is better than what you're sporting.

My rogue knowledge isn't well up there, but I was under the impression slow swords were the way to go.

Your armory shows you as sub spec with two really fast swords, isn't that just.. bad?

Yea I noticed this....we are doing horrible in groups.....

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Q u o t e:
You're wearing lvl 70 gear. Seriously man, ratings scale inversely with level. Pick up some 80 crap. Even quest gear is better than what you're sporting.

My rogue knowledge isn't well up there, but I was under the impression slow swords were the way to go.

Your armory shows you as sub spec with two really fast swords, isn't that just.. bad?

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More people than just him are saying this, everyone I know as a rogue was saying this.

Funny, eh?
I' going to tell you what everybody tells me when i qq about not being viable at Arenas:
"If you want to PvP, roll a Rogue. If you want to PvE, roll a Hunter."

Have fun.

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Q u o t e:
Yea I noticed this....we are doing horrible in groups.....




More people than just him are saying this, everyone I know as a rogue was saying this.

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I haven't heard that many rogues complaining about this.....

also yes, 2 fast swords is bad...

2 fast swords as sub is possibly the worst thing ever.

Rogues are a very difficult class to balance for PVE and PVP. They can't just ramp up rogue DPS to entice folks into bringing them for PVE groups... because on the PVP side they'll obliterate other players.

I'm not sure how they can fix it. :/

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Q u o t e:
Rogues are a very difficult class to balance for PVE and PVP. They can't just ramp up rogue DPS to entice folks into bringing them for PVE groups... because on the PVP side they'll obliterate other players.

I'm not sure how they can fix it. :/

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moar "from behind only" skills? then they'd be in the same boat as hunters. with incredible stationary dps but issues when they need to reposition often.

Got to upgrade that gear man. I only have a couple pieces of PvP gear left. ( My S4 Gloves and my S3 leggings). As soon as i got rid of all my other S2/S3 peices I tell you what my dps shot up 25%more. I got a trinket that procs like 290 expertise rating, it's awesome, i never miss when that procs, (it could be less expertise rating, i don't know the exact number off the top of my head). Anyway my hit rating is a little low but seriously you got to get rid of that pvp gear.

hi

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Q u o t e:
Rogue dps seems to be high in heroics and raids. We are not seeing the case where rogues get skipped over for these runs.

I can understand rogues feeling left out when so many groups are AE'ing their way through the lower level 5-player instances at the moment. We don't expect that strategy to continue to Naxx however.

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Yep a lot of my damage comes from AE pulling. GC is right, it's so easy ae pull on low lvl stuff leveling up.