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Q u o t e:


They just made it so you want more crit instead to accomplish the same thing, of course this bones you in pvp due to itemization but you'll be fine in pve once you get gear.

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Actually the PvP gear has never had spirit. So not only is spirit nerfed - its only for PvE.

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Q u o t e:


They just made it so you want more crit instead to accomplish the same thing, of course this bones you in pvp due to itemization but you'll be fine in pve once you get gear.

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The problem that I see with this, assuming what you are saying is true, is that Blizzard would be doing a disservice to players if they were trying to goad us into what THEY believe priests should be gearing up, instead of giving players the freedom to choose. That would be similar to them getting rid of the discipline and shadow trees and leaving only the Holy tree.
This is why I think we need the official word from a blue poster as to what their intentions are with priests. They did this for paladins so lets see if they do this for priests.

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Q u o t e:


Actually the PvP gear has never had spirit. So not only is spirit nerfed - its only for PvE.

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It has spirit now, although you have to choose between spirit and crit.

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Q u o t e:


It has spirit now, although you have to choose between spirit and crit.

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Well, given the amount time I am alive in a bg or an arena I would have to go for crit. I only need about 500 mana for the current pvp encounters.

Don't worry - I wont go oom ... I will go ooh first.

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Q u o t e:


Well, given the amount time I am alive in a bg or an arena I would have to go for crit. I only need about 500 mana for the current pvp encounters.

Don't worry - I wont go oom ... I will go ooh first.

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Spirit is ultimately better for disc in pvp, it's indicative of the state of disc that crit would seem appealing due only to their lack of survivability and thus, lack of ability to gain benefit from the superior stat.

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Q u o t e:
I was unaware that 13% unbuffed crit was 0%. Sure, I'm not entirely geared yet, and plan on getting this to 20%-30% while maintainin stats/spellpower.

I still don't have mana issues like everyone is complaining they are.

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I'm not bashing you - I just saw your gear stats and thought "WTF how is that possible" and then I saw the lack of crit and it made sense.

passive regen was nerfed to encourage/require more use of active regen by different classes
a rotating Hymn of Hope between priests in the same group can be worthwhile

unfortunately I think that theyve gone a bit far so as to discourage efficient use of the fsr. Buff out of fsr spirit regen slightly and more playstyles would open up

The problem alot of priests have been seeing is that regen has been cut by 40% once you hit 80.

Break down of regen from constantius on EJs

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Q u o t e:

5 * 0.0093271 * Spirit * Square_root ( Intellect )
which made spirit very valuable, and intellect slightly so.

Not only was the coefficient lowered as we leveled to 80 (as expected), but Blizzard made the decision to lower the coefficient yet further in an attempt to remove our ability to 'regen infinitely'. Accordingly, the formula at 80 is:

5 * 0.005575 * Spirit * Square_root ( Intellect )an overall reduction of ~40%.
This actually makes intellect as valuable as spirit overall, due to the Replenishment changes.

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How to gear up for Naxx and beyond...

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Q u o t e:

One of the big questions many priests ask is "how much spirit / intellect should I have", with the secondary question "where is the point at which it makes sense to stop stacking one and start stacking the other". As mentioned above, each gives some side benefits that must be considered.

First, realize that regardless of Discipline or Holy, every point of spirit is effective equal to 1.155 spirit, thanks to 5% from Enlightenment / SoR and 10% from Blessing of Kings. Similarly, for a Holy priest, every point of Intellect is equal to 1.1, while for Discipline, each point is equal to 1.265, thanks to Mental Strength and Blessing of Kings.

Now, the conversion numbers are as follows:
1% crit = 166.67 intellect
1 intellect = 0.1875 Mp5 (Replenishment)
1 intellect = 0.208 Mp5 (6 minute fight, mana pool size)
1 intellect = 0.083 Mp5 (6 minute fight, shadowfiend)
1 intellect = 0.114 Mp5 (Holy, 6 minute fight, IHC procs from crit, split 50/50 Flash and GHeal)
1 intellect = 0.017 Mp5 (Disc, 6 minute fight, Divine Aegis absorb crits procing Rapture)
1 intellect = 0.194 Mp5 (Meditation, 1000 spirit assumed, 80% I5SR)
1 spirit = 0.388 Mp5 (Meditation, 1000 intellect assumed, 80% I5SR)
1 spirit = 0.25 spellpower (Holy, Spiritual Guidance)

Since 1 intellect = 1 spirit (effectively) for ilvl points spent, we really have no loss in gaining one versus the other. The exception to this rule is in considering gear that has no spirit on it, as those items are in much much higher demand, especially by dps casters (for cloth items) and by all casters and healers (for necks, rings, and trinkets, along with weapons). You will find it much easier to pick up spirit items than non-spirit, simply because of that competition. Thus, I am going to assume that any item you grab is a spirit+int item, just for sake of argument. When this is true, the minimum gearing you will be at, fully raid-buffed (25-man), in ilvl 186+ rare or epic pieces, will be 1000 intellect + 1000 spirit. This is, of course, assuming full enchants, and all raid buffs possible, along with consumables. So use 1000/1000 as our starting point.

Now, here's the hard part. How do we model crit rating as a regen mechanic? For holy priests, 45% of our crits result in a completely free spell. Of course, we can assume that this spell will always be GHeal, but that's going to unfairly weight things in favor of crit, since even one absolutely free GHeal is a tremendous amount of mana. For disc priests, every critical heal leaves a Divine Aegis shield on the target, and relative to the amount absorbed, mana is returned through Rapture. So in both cases, crit = regen. The question is, how much, and how heavily does this weight Intellect in our computations?

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We'll be fighting with dps for crit on cloth gear (other then locks). I will take the spirit pieces so my dpsers can grab the crit for themselves first.

From:
http://elitistjerks.com/f77/t35208-wotlk_healing_compendium_v3_0_progress/

That goes only off of what you innately regen.

Throw in Replenishment, Shadow Fiend, Mana Tide Totem, etc and int comes out vastly ahead. (all of these are a % of maximum mana)

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Q u o t e:
That goes only off of what you innately regen.

Throw in Replenishment, Shadow Fiend, Mana Tide Totem, etc and int comes out vastly ahead. (all of these are a % of maximum mana)

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This is correct.

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Q u o t e:
That goes only off of what you innately regen.

Throw in Replenishment, Shadow Fiend, Mana Tide Totem, etc and int comes out vastly ahead. (all of these are a % of maximum mana)

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I agree. I will stack +int gems in my slots.

My point was most gear comes with int + spirit or Int + crit. The dps in your guild are still going to want the crit. Those numbers were fully raid buffed.

The biggest thing was why the 40% reduction in regen?

Koraa said it was due to not being able to spend mana fast enough, maybe a few full T6 Druids (very few) in beta but as most healers have found, mana is a problem at 80.

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Q u o t e:
I agree that with replenishment, int is the best stat. But I am finding that if I have replenishment, I never run out of mana with high int, but without replenishment, I am struggling - there is no middle ground. I am not sure if this is the way it is supposed to be. I was focusing on int and crit until in one of the runs, I had to rely on my own regen, and realized my passive regen was downright awful.

I know that in raids this may be not much of an issue since you will have replenishment from someone as well as a crit enhancing buff. Right now though, for 5 mans, I am taking whatever passiveregen I can find, whether int or spi without hurting crit too much. It has become a more difficult balancing act.

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So we have to keep a separate set of gear for 5-mans and 10-mans without replenishment? Yikes.

Guys, you are missing the point. Looking at the overall picture, there needs to be a uniform approach to things. It used to mp5 was the big thing to get, then it was changed to spirit, now, it looks like intellect is the winner. And who know, in the next few months, that may change as well!
We need uniformity. Why? Because we as healers can then begin to gear our toons accordingly. Many priests were stacking +spirit gems and +spirit gear. Now, we have too change all that and start focusing on intellect. Since we are in competition with mages, warlocks and healers, it will be doubly hard to get any type of good gear.
That is why I want an official word from Ghost Crawler or any blue poster in regards to trying to keep things as uniform as possible. If you make spirit the #1 choice of healers, don't drastically modify it so that us toons who spent hours dungeon crawling to get good +spirit gear are now out in the cold.
If you do see the need to nerf a something, then you have to give add something else to make up for it.
So, spirit got nerfed, then the restriction of 1 potion use/fight got implemented, then Hymn of Hope was added which is useless, and of course, shadowfiend which can still be killed in a couple of hits and can be outrun. Where is the justification to all of this?

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Q u o t e:
As a few players have referenced, we thought mana regen got to a point at the end of BC where players could just generally ignore it and assumed that mana was just a system you eventually graduate out of (kind of like experience).

We don't want you to be out of mana constantly, but we do want the risk of that to exist. We balance some spells based on their mana cost for example and when you can always use your most expensive, least efficient spell without consequence, then your cheap and efficient spells don't compete.

Mana is a resource to be managed, much like health or cooldowns.

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This is good, but didn't the downranking change fix most of this already?

Edit:
I mean as a healer, if you have use your inefficient heal you have to, or the raid wipes.

I think the uniformity in all of this is that classes were finding the 1 stat that would keep them from running out of mana and that was not intended.

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Q u o t e:
As a few players have referenced, we thought mana regen got to a point at the end of BC where players could just generally ignore it and assumed that mana was just a system you eventually graduate out of (kind of like experience).

We don't want you to be out of mana constantly, but we do want the risk of that to exist. We balance some spells based on their mana cost for example and when you can always use your most expensive, least efficient spell without consequence, then your cheap and efficient spells don't compete.

Mana is a resource to be managed, much like health or cooldowns.

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Makes sense to me! :-)

I enjoy the challenges. I don't want an ez-mode game, and I will admit that mana was making it ez-mode. For example, I simply didn't have to carry water with me anymore, towards the end of the Burning Crusade expansion. Now, I actually DO need to drink, which should be expected when I use mana. I'm willing to take on the challenge of managing my mana pool.

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Q u o t e:
Mana is a resource to be managed, much like health

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..yet we're the ones managing health, and managing mana to manage health.

And you wonder why nobody heals anymore :)

Hmm - I can manage my mana which has horrible regen, so that I can manage other health, or I can play a DPS-tard class and just mash buttons and maybe watch my mana a little bit!

Which one should I pick?

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Q u o t e:


..yet we're the ones managing health, and managing mana to manage health.

And you wonder why nobody heals anymore :)

Hmm - I can manage my mana which has horrible regen, so that I can manage other health, or I can play a DPS-tard class and just mash buttons and maybe watch my mana a little bit!

Which one should I pick?

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You should pick the one you find most fun.

Speaking of Spirit, GC could the devs please look at us poor Demo locks? We have no mana regen talents at all, not even improved Life Tap, and at level 80 it takes me less then 15 seconds to blow through my entire mana pool. It's even worse then it was in BC.

-Burns