http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=fhxbZ0gV0x0oZebddhhzdAzVc

using a dagger only because it's 143dps vs. a .9 speed slower 130dps sword i have, also because i can get close quarters combat for a dagger (whereas, with a sword, my combat talents would be much worse)... if i had a fist, i'd use it instead

as you can see, the build is based entirely on honor among thieves... the 15% evi damage from aggression + 20% from imp evi will make for some pretty ridiculous eviscerates... i'm assuming crit chance with your mh also increases the crit chance of evi

for people who haven't tried HAT yet: with the right group, you can have 5 combo points quicker than you can use them; if i had 2 fists and could get blood splatter, i think this spec could be ridiculously effective in a group supportive of it

btw: honor among thieves gives you combo points from your OWN crits too, it's like seal fate on crack

also, blood splatter might be better to pick up over aggression, but it really depends on how many combo points you're pulling in... you could pull off 3 times as much damage from evi than rupture per cycle, i believe...

edit: in fact, i'm changing the OP spec to blood splatter, considering it's more likely you won't be pulling in enough combo points to triple rupture damage with evi

With the ammount of combo points generated by HAT keeping SnD and Rupture up while tossing in 3-4 5cp evis's doesn't seem to be a problem. The only problem with this build is if yer epileptic (sp?) and have combat text showing combo points.

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Q u o t e:
With the ammount of combo points generated by HAT keeping SnD and Rupture up while tossing in 3-4 5cp evis's doesn't seem to be a problem. The only problem with this build is if yer epileptic (sp?) and have combat text showing combo points.

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haha, yeah


also one more very important thing: check out the white damage

Malice, Duel wield, precision, close quarters combat, imp SnD, Serrated blades, deadliness, hemorrhage (debuff), deadliness, sinister calling

your white damage will be RIDICULOUS!

Random musings about HaT...if the only thing you're casting is finishers, then assuming you're waiting until 5 CP each time, the finishers only cost 10 energy at most (since we're assuming finisher spam, you can't really spam Slice and Dice or Rupture or Expose, so it'd have to be Eviscerate)...well, you're generating 10 energy per second, so unless you're finishing every second you're netting positive energy. But then, theoretically wasted energy doesn't really matter if you're performing an attack every GCD, since the point of the energy system is to throttle ability usage. I suppose you'd pretty much just Hemorrhage or whatever on any GCD where you didn't have 5 CP.

God, I can't believe I'm seriously thinking about a HaT build.

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Q u o t e:

God, I can't believe I'm seriously thinking about a HaT build.

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o.0

in pve wouldn't enveloping shadows be better than master of subtlety? you know, just in case? i realize that with elusiveness and prep you can vanish pretty aggressively, so to speak, which makes master of subtlety pretty appealing.

also, so long as you'll be using a dagger since you want cqc and only plan on using hemo for the debuff, i feel like improved ambush is a better opener than garrote since a hat-based spec, if i understand this correctly, doesn't really need to worry about running out of energy so you only care about the straight up damage and combo points generated by your opener, rather than damage per energy.


edit - actually it kinda seems like if you aren't using hemo to generate cp's like you would sinister strike in a combat build, then you would have trouble keeping the debuff up in a group setting, much less a raid setting where the charges seem to disappear inside the gcd sometimes. i guess the right thing to do would be to mainhand a fist and open with garrote?

nevermind, you already covered this in an edit to the op!

Wouldn't fists be better all around for this build. There's nothing here that requires a dagger right? Maybe it's a bug but I hear fists have 5% higher crit for some reason.

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Q u o t e:
Wouldn't fists be better all around for this build. There's nothing here that requires a dagger right? Maybe it's a bug but I hear fists have 5% higher crit for some reason.

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read the OP

Also, Fists have a 2.4 attack power contribution from Instant Attack Normalization vs the 1.7 attack power contribution with daggers... resulting in stronger hemos from fists than from daggers even if the fist weapon is really fast... unfortunately, when was the last time you saw a fast fist weapon for the main hand? Why am I talking about fast fist weapons? Because Eviscerate doesn't scale from weapon damage, lowering Hemo's Usage. Would a faster main hand = More damage from poison procs while Eviscerate spamming between the 5s/5r renewals?

For raiding, you'll want to prioritize your ratings this way... Special Hit Cap (131.12 with Precision), Expertise Cap (Enough to reduce a target's dodge chance by what... 6.5%?), and then the Poison Hit Cap.

The reason for this is if you miss or have your Eviscerate or rupture dodged, you lose 35 energy or 25 energy with no gains from Relentless Strikes... in other words, you miss 3.5 or 2.5 global cooldowns and drop that much time's worth of Combo Points all over the floor... this can add up real quickly.

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Q u o t e:
o.0

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I mean, I'm not thinking about speccing HaT. I'm just thinking about what a HaT build is like.

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Q u o t e:


I mean, I'm not thinking about speccing HaT. I'm just thinking about what a HaT build is like.

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well yeah, i'm not exactly a super srs pveer

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Q u o t e:


I mean, I'm not thinking about speccing HaT. I'm just thinking about what a HaT build is like.

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43 points in sub, grab early Assassination and combat talents for improving crit chance and eviscerate and generally improving combo point efficiency of other finishers through Imp SnD and possibly glyph of Rupture. a 44th point in Sub for Shadowstep to use as an energy sink is purely on the user's opinion.

It's built completely around the efficiency Honor Among Thieves which has a 33/66/100% chance to grant you a combo point if anyone in your party (not raid wide) crits on a special attack, damaging spell or healing spell... works on your abilities too. - Relentless Strikes, which grants 25 energy when you use a 5 point finisher, has great synergy with HAT. Since Eviscerate is 35 energy, and global Cooldown is 1 second, and since HAT's cooldown is 1 combo point per player per second, it is possible to pop 5 point eviscerates at the end of every global cooldown. Hemo is used only if you find yourself with 50+ energy and short a few combo points at the end of a Global Cooldown.

When popping your combo points on Rupture and Slice and Dice, you actually gain 10 energy from the GCD.

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Q u o t e:


43 points in sub, grab early Assassination and combat talents for improving crit chance and eviscerate and generally improving combo point efficiency of other finishers through Imp SnD and possibly glyph of Rupture. a 44th point in Sub for Shadowstep to use as an energy sink is purely on the user's opinion.

It's built completely around the efficiency Honor Among Thieves which has a 33/66/100% chance to grant you a combo point if anyone in your party (not raid wide) crits on a special attack, damaging spell or healing spell... works on your abilities too. - Relentless Strikes, which grants 25 energy when you use a 5 point finisher, has great synergy with HAT. Since Eviscerate is 35 energy, and global Cooldown is 1 second, and since HAT's cooldown is 1 combo point per player per second, it is possible to pop 5 point eviscerates at the end of every global cooldown. Hemo is used only if you find yourself with 50+ energy and short a few combo points at the end of a Global Cooldown.

When popping your combo points on Rupture and Slice and Dice, you actually gain 10 energy from the GCD.

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vulajin already knows that. grats on wasting 5 minutes of your life.

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Q u o t e:


vulajin already knows that. grats on wasting 5 minutes of your life.

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In other words, I should have just said

"A hat build is like: Rupture, Slice and Dice, spam eviscerate" then?

And really, it was only 1:30 of my life.

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Q u o t e:

Pretty sure you don't know who Vulajin is brah

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I generally avoided the Rogue Forums for the past year or two aside from supporting the random "Bring Swirly Ball Back" thread that popped up every few months, or the frequent QQing Warlock.

So yeah, I don't know who Vulajin is.

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Q u o t e:

Pretty sure you don't know who Vulajin is brah

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Who is Professor Hawk? You ask us
Who is Professor Hawk? We'll tell you
Some say he's a madman
Some say he's a cooky bird
But we know he's the man
He's a genius

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Q u o t e:
I generally avoided the Rogue Forums for the past year or two

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Hey we have something in common.