World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail.

Levicus

< Novaku >

Cenarion Circle

80. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 12:45:10 PM PST

Q u o t e:

No, numbers proved a disadvantage because of the location. If numbers had been a real advantage then the Greeks wouldn't have lasted as long as they did because the Persians had more. This was no open field battle. This was a close quarters battle where the Greeks held the upper hand.

That doesn't mean having higher numbers is a disadvantage. Going by that logic, the Persians should have won (won again, I mean) if they had fewer numbers than the Greeks. The Greeks won because of the terrain and superior tactics and strategy. If the Persians had fewer numbers than the Greeks, or equal to their troop strength, the Persians would have lost.

Malfeasance

< Keepers of the Groov… >

Aggramar

81. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 12:55:35 PM PST

Q u o t e:

Who says I am exaggerating?

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/6499/wowscrnshot112008002558yv2.jpg

You are greatly exaggerating now. You said if there is a 5v5 and a couple of people are AFKing then the other side would get a 20 stack of Tenacity.

Then you show me a picture of a see of green and ONE opposing player. OF COURSE in the PARTICULAR situation he should have a 20 stack of Tenacity.

Give a man a fire and he stays warm for a day, set a man on fire and you keep him warm for the rest of his life.

Kazamaringo

< Loners >

Lothar

82. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 01:11:53 PM PST

Q u o t e:
a posible solution might be making tenacity based off people with private or better buffs so that elemental farmers don't count.

How about just removing the loot from the mobs i nthe zone so people will not go there for PvE reasons. Problem solved. As long as there are farmable mobs in that zone, people will go there and not participate in the PvP aspect.

Merriana

< Acheron >

Hyjal

84. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 01:25:44 PM PST

Q u o t e:
which is retarded because alliance outnumber horde on my server 3:1

Tenacity is based off the # of your faction actually in wintergrasp.

It's not checked locally in wintergrasp, either. So even if there were 10 alliance against 3 horde in the keep, if there's 20 alliance to 50 horde in the entirety of wintergrasp, then alliance gets tenacity.

Sucks to be those 3 hordies in the keep.

You can correct ignorance, but you can't cure stupid.

Zarhym

Blizzard Poster

87. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:01:36 PM PST

Q u o t e:

So larger team = disadvantage, good to know, makes total sense.

It really feels like you're approaching Wintergrasp the way you approach battleground PvP. You can't because it's not. There is not a great focus on balancing around a fair fight in Wintergrasp because we rarely expect them on the micro scale. We're focusing on a macro scale of the whole siege taking place and balancing around that, because we can never count on even numbers. Again, it's not instanced and a controlled balancing act of virtually even teams and balanced abilities.

I think it's a mistake to say this means you're at a disadvantage. Yes, if you are in a 1v1 situation in Wintergrasp on the team with more members in the zone, you're at a disadvantage. This simply isn't a zone where the focus should be on 1v1 fighting. The strategies revolve entirely around siege vehicles and team work.

I think this will also make a little more sense when more and more players start entering the zone. If you're in a match and it's your 20 vs their 10 you may find yourself more frequently caught in situations where it's 1v1, in which case you'll have a disadvantage in that one encounter. Once we start seeing 40-50 players on each side the siege team work will become a much more obvious focus.

With all of this being said, we very recently toned down the tenacity buff and are watching to see how matches play out with this macro balancing technique. You're always welcome to try something a little new and see if it appeals to you when you've discovered a strategy for best dealing with this difference in game play.

I, for one, welcome with open arms the chance to have a less-controlled large-scale PvP objective with no instancing, and I hope you'll help us by showing your participation. This will better help us ensure the zone is finely-tuned and polished.

The kiosk in my temporal lobe is shaped like Rosalyn Carter.

Direshadow

< Devourment >

Maelstrom

88. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:01:59 PM PST

It'll pick up when more people hit Edit: EIGHTY. I have to get used to that...

I've been playing a ton, 3 days strait on my days off and about 4 - 5 hours a day after work, and i'm STILL only just reaching level 78.

When everyone is 80, it'll be an amazing zone.

THAT is what PVP should have been... not this giant e-peen contest called Arena.

[ Post edited by Direshadow ]

Curse Blizzard for putting an unexpected turn of events into an epic fantasy game!

Curse them!

Corairn

Cairne

89. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:02:15 PM PST

nou

Direshadow

< Devourment >

Maelstrom

90. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:04:44 PM PST

Q u o t e:

It really feels like you're approaching Wintergrasp the way you approach battleground PvP. You can't because it's not. There is not a great focus on balancing around a fair fight in Wintergrasp because we rarely expect them on the micro scale. We're focusing on a macro scale of the whole siege taking place and balancing around that, because we can never count on even numbers. Again, it's not instanced and a controlled balancing act of virtually even teams and balanced abilities.

I think it's a mistake to say this means you're at a disadvantage. Yes, if you are in a 1v1 situation in Wintergrasp on the team with more members in the zone, you're at a disadvantage. This simply isn't a zone where the focus should be on 1v1 fighting. The strategies revolve entirely around siege vehicles and team work.

I think this will also make a little more sense when more and more players start entering the zone. If you're in a match and it's your 20 vs their 10 you may find yourself more frequently caught in situations where it's 1v1, in which case you'll have a disadvantage in that one encounter. Once we start seeing 40-50 players on each side the siege team work will become a much more obvious focus.

With all of this being said, we very recently toned down the tenacity buff and are watching to see how matches play out with this macro balancing technique. You're always welcome to try something a little new and see if it appeals to you when you've discovered a strategy for best dealing with this difference in game play.

I, for one, welcome with open arms the chance to have a less-controlled large-scale PvP objective with no instancing, and I hope you'll help us by showing your participation. This will better help us ensure the zone is finely-tuned and polished.

The people who i've talked to whom have actually done the zone say that even if they're losing, it's still amazingly fun. I think it's going to be exciting, because you don't have to rely so much on gear... just hop in a turret and cherry pick or stick close to that season 12 Arena geared Death Knight.

Curse Blizzard for putting an unexpected turn of events into an epic fantasy game!

Curse them!

Mystal

< Ars Discordia >

Doomhammer

91. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:05:43 PM PST

Q u o t e:
It'll pick up when more people hit Edit: EIGHTY. I have to get used to that...

I've been playing a ton, 3 days strait on my days off and about 4 - 5 hours a day after work, and i'm STILL only just reaching level 78.

When everyone is 80, it'll be an amazing zone.

THAT is what PVP should have been... not this giant e-peen contest called Arena.

Wait til you see the lag.

It's hard to make world PvP that looks good and runs smoothly.

In any case I don't see anything special about wintergrasp. It's basically what AV used to be, but with no real hope of ever being balanced.

[ Post edited by Mystal ]

Tricsun

< No Quarter >

Garona

92. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:06:10 PM PST

Honestly, i don't have much of a problem with Tenacity buff on players. The PROBLEM is that it applies to the vehicles too. This should not happen. When the other team can take a siege tank, and knock down a wall in less than 30 seconds, there's something wrong, especially since they also have well over 100k HP.

It's an interruption of things you want to remain stagnant. It's hardcore, but so is Arthas. It's how he rolls. And when he rolls, he rolls entire villages.

-Zarhym

Tacotruck

< TSP >

Bonechewer

93. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:07:25 PM PST

Please give us a way to remotely tell how long until the next LWG match

Ne spegner puo per star nell'acqua il foco;
Ne puo stato mutar per mutar loco.

Calx

< Kindread >

Kel'Thuzad

94. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:10:46 PM PST

Q u o t e:

I've manned a turret and have ejected myself. I wasn't aware there was a bug.

ha....hahahaha.....ahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahaha

Calx = Faelix,
Faelix = Calx

Tricsun

< No Quarter >

Garona

95. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:11:49 PM PST

Q u o t e:
Please give us a way to remotely tell how long until the next LWG match

You either have to go to the zone and check, or sit around in Dalaran with your thumb in something. They should put a little timer on the map, or something like that.

It's an interruption of things you want to remain stagnant. It's hardcore, but so is Arthas. It's how he rolls. And when he rolls, he rolls entire villages.

-Zarhym

Terrorsauce

< MM >

Darkspear

97. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:14:40 PM PST

Q u o t e:

It really feels like you're approaching Wintergrasp the way you approach battleground PvP. You can't because it's not. There is not a great focus on balancing around a fair fight in Wintergrasp because we rarely expect them on the micro scale. We're focusing on a macro scale of the whole siege taking place and balancing around that, because we can never count on even numbers. Again, it's not instanced and a controlled balancing act of virtually even teams and balanced abilities.

I think it's a mistake to say this means you're at a disadvantage. Yes, if you are in a 1v1 situation in Wintergrasp on the team with more members in the zone, you're at a disadvantage. This simply isn't a zone where the focus should be on 1v1 fighting. The strategies revolve entirely around siege vehicles and team work.

I think this will also make a little more sense when more and more players start entering the zone. If you're in a match and it's your 20 vs their 10 you may find yourself more frequently caught in situations where it's 1v1, in which case you'll have a disadvantage in that one encounter. Once we start seeing 40-50 players on each side the siege team work will become a much more obvious focus.

With all of this being said, we very recently toned down the tenacity buff and are watching to see how matches play out with this macro balancing technique. You're always welcome to try something a little new and see if it appeals to you when you've discovered a strategy for best dealing with this difference in game play.

I, for one, welcome with open arms the chance to have a less-controlled large-scale PvP objective with no instancing, and I hope you'll help us by showing your participation. This will better help us ensure the zone is finely-tuned and polished.

You failed at creating a real world pvp environment the moment you tried to regulate it. World pvp is not supposed to be fair, never has and never will. The only thing your doing is watering it down some more.

You WoW devs are really good at destroying the true meaning of PvP. Just give up on it and do what you do best, make pretty armor graphics and pve dungeons. Leave the pvp to real MMO's.

Roor
<Merciless Midgets>

Fresca

< Einherjar >

Andorhal

98. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:15:07 PM PST

I did a wintergrasp today and I had 14 stacks of tenacity.

We made it through to inside the keep but there was so many horde that even though we could one or two shot them they stopped us from capping.

Stuns > Tenacity

Even if I do have 100k health in bear and my frenzied regen heals for 5k... Nothing like tanking and killing 10 hordies at once!

Dirtyhagus

Korgath

99. Re: So Wintersgrasp is pretty fail. 11/21/2008 02:29:05 PM PST

Using the ratio as the determinant for the tenacity buff isn't the best way to go. Blizzard should come up with an algorithm that takes into consideration other factors. I'm no math whiz, but if you just do the ratio you're basically saying that those 100 alliance will be attacking the 10 horde at the exact same time. However, this isn't how it works, the horde would encounter the alliance in smaller groups, which is why this doesn't work.

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