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  • 0. Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 06:46:48 AM PDT
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I recently posted a hit rating guide for DW fury warriors. After taking a lot of replies from other warriors I heavily edited it and expanded it to a general guide/FAQ for DW fury warriors. I will edit upon valid criticism and expand it upon receiving good questions.

1: Talents
2: Hit Rating vs. STR/Crit: Why to never gem for hit
3: Attack Table: Why hitting more does not mean you crit more
4: Heroic Strike vs. Cleave
5: Slow or Fast Offhand?
6: Skill Rotation
-Should hamstring be a part of my skill rotation?
-Threat
7: PvP
8: Execute Range
9: Weapon Enchants
10: Haste
11: Gear
12: Gemming

1: Talents:


For a pure PvE dps build check my armory and look at what I have. The points in fury are really not negotiable, however you can spend them any way you want in arms as long as you get deep wounds, impale and anger management. I like getting parry and thunderclap for off tank utility but do what you feel works for you.

2: Hit Rating vs. STR/Crit:

Here I will provide a basic overview and provide some links to places where people can look at math to their heart's content.

Hit Rating: 15.8 rating grants 1% hit chance
Critical Strike Rating: 22.1 rating grants 1% critical strike chance

These following statements are assuming your target is a raid boss. If a mob/player is your level the miss rate is 5% for yellow and 24% for white attacks.

While duel wielding your white attacks will have a 28%(rounded up) chance to miss. Your yellow attacks still have a 9%(rounded up) chance to miss. This means that if you have precision you will want to stack hit until you reach 95 hit rating which will mean you will not miss a yellow attack.

With the introduction of hit and crit ratings item budgets now work so that 1 str = 1 agility = 1 crit rating = 1 hit rating and so on and so forth. That leaves warriors with the question of which stats to stack. Until you reach 95 hit rating take hit over everything else. After this point hit is now your worst dps stat.

For a warrior starting in Kara 1 str > 1 crit rating > 1 hit rating. As you get into BT/Hyjal range it is under contention whether crit or str is better though they both remain clearly superior to hit. Many people’s instinct is to stack hit but it is simply not an efficient way to gear. Now hit is still useful so do not try to avoid hit on your gear. This is more a warning against stacking it at the cost of other stats. If you can improve your hit without giving away crit or str then go for it. However, never under any circumstance gem for hit as a fury warrior unless you are under 100 hit rating.

Strength and crit affect every single one of your attacks white hit rating only effects white damage. All three of the stats are closely related though and as any of the values change the relative worth of the other two change also. A good place to go to in order to find the relative value of each stat for your current level of gear is:
http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t6842-dps_warrior_spreadsheet/

Here you can enter your gear and get a rough value of how useful a single point of str, hit, and crit is for you right now.


For the love of all that is good on this earth I am not advocating staying at 100 hit and never increasing it from there. All I am saying is to stop stacking it ahead of str/crit. Hit is still a very good stat and one you will need. Just use it in moderation.



3: Attack Tables:

One of the popular arguments for stacking hit is people tell you that the more you hit the more you crit. As much as that sounds like it makes sense it is not how the WoW combat system works. Wow uses an attack table. http://www.wowwiki.com/Attack_table

This means is that there is a 100 sided die that blizzard rolls every time you attack. Say you have 0 hit and 41% crit and are attacking from behind.

Here are the sides of the die:
1-28: Miss
29-53: Glancing Blow
53-58: Dodge
59-100: Crit

In this circumstance every time you hit it will crit. Crit shares the hit table with non crits so as long as your crit is less than miss + glancing + dodge then adding hit will have no effect on your crit. Now if you crit was above 41% which is possible with raid buffs and mongoose procs then you would be loosing crits in this situation. However one will never have 0 hit. Assuming then minimum 9% hit for your yellows not to miss you can safely stack crit to 51% without loosing any benefit. From here on every 1% hit increases your crit cap by 1%.

[ Post edited by Meeks ]

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  • 1. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 06:47:45 AM PDT
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4: Heroic Strike vs. Cleave

Heroic strike and cleave are the two contenders for a rage dump for fury warriors. They both have bonus damage, they both are not on the global cooldown, and they both turn a white attack into a yellow attack. This means that an attack that would of had a 28% chance to miss, 25% to be a glancing blow, and only crit for 2x damage now becomes a yellow attack. It only has the base 8% miss, no glancing and 2.1x crit from impale. They both also have bonus threat.

It is well known how a fury warrior’s main limitation is the threat cap. In an effort to try to lower their threat people have been floating the idea of using cleave instead of heroic strike. This is a matter of confusion due to blizzard listing on heroic strike’s tool tip that it has bonus threat and not on cleave’s. However this far into the game you should know better then to believe something on Blizzard’s tooltips.

www.wowwiki.com/Heroic_Strike
www.wowwiki.com/Cleave

Heroic strike adds 176 damage for 196 threat. That is 1.1 threat per bonus damage.
Cleave adds 70 damage for 130 bonus threat. That is 1.8 threat per bonus damage.

Something worth noting however is that if cleave hit two targets the bonus threat is split between the two making it preferable threat wise if you have a second target to hit.

As Natural pointed out to me this is not the entire story.


Q u o t e:
For example, let's say that "removing glancing blows and reducing chance to miss" increases the expected damage of an attack by 200. This is a completely out of the ballpark example, I'll look at some WWS logs in a second.

This changes your calculation as follows:

Heroic strike adds 176 damage (+200 for hit/glance) for 196 threat. 1.92 damage/threat
Cleave adds 70 damage (+200 for hit/glance) for 130 bonus threat. 2.07 damage/threat

Here, cleave is the victor. If you can calculate the value of these other bonuses (no glance, +hit, +10% crit damage), THEN you can calculate what is better damage per threat.


This means it becomes hard to tell exactly how much threat each one causes without calculating factors from all your gear. It would appear that the better your gear the more in favor of cleave it will be. The differences are pretty minor and for now I would still recommend heroic strike because of the very large rage difference and minor threat difference.


5: Slow or Fast Offhand?


There are benefits for a slow and a fast offhand. A fast offhand is good for steady rage generation and easily refreshed rampage.

A slow offhand benefits from better scaling with haste, less wasted flurry charges, and if it is the same speed as your main hand you can get 4 charges from flurry sometimes.

Personally I pick the offhand with the best stats that I have access to. If I have a choice between two offhands with similar stats I will pick the slower one. However with the changes to Unbridled Wrath and the rage normalization your offhand is not a huge deal.


6: Skill Rotation:

The standard fury build has ½ improved whirlwind. This allows you to make a solid skill rotation with blood thirst and whirlwind.

Seconds into fight:
0: BT
1.5: WW
3: Global cool down free
6: BT
7.5: Global cool down free
10.5: WW
12: BT
13.5: Global cool down free
15: Global cool down free
18: BT
19.5: WW

This allows you to use both abilities as they cool down. Also leaves some nice places to use a global cooldown on something else. Use these times to refresh a shout or rampage or possibly a hamstring.

Assuming threat is not a concern use heroic strike if you go over 50 rage.

Should hamstring be a part of my skill rotation?

Before the windfury nerf hamstring used to be a vital part of your skill rotation because it could proc a windfury attack. Now that it no longer procs windfury it is less clear whether or not to use it. Hamstring can crit and proc flurry, and it can proc enchants and haste procs. However hamstring has 181 bonus threat per use. In the end it is up to you. If you have the rage and you are good on threat feel free to use a global cool down on a hamstring. Generally speaking I will use heroic strike before I use hamstring. This is because they both have the same amount of bonus threat and I generally feel heroic strike will add more damage. This is really up to personal opinion though.

Threat:

Threat is a major concern for a fury warriors and is often our limiting factor. I highly recommend getting omen and making sure your tanks have it too. I also recommend begging paladins for salvation if you are not getting it.

If threat is becoming an issue stop using heroic strike and just auto attack until your threat settles a little. Then add BT and WW back into your rotation until your threat goes back to 80% of tank. Then add heroic strike back at your discretion. Do not worry about wasting rage if threat is an issue. You do more damage alive then dead.

7: PvP:

Arena:

A PvE fury build is really lacking in pvp. You do not have improved intercept or mortal strike and you take a beating from zerker stance. Stacking resilience gear takes you below the minimal hit cap so your damage suffers greatly. Stacking the dps gear you need means you take way to much damage due to no resilience. As soon as a good arena team realizes you are fury prepare to die and die fast.

If you have any desire to do well in arena and are not just playing to get the minimum games for points then I would respec to arms.

Battlegrounds:
You will fair slightly better here as people care less and are much less organized. This means if you are lucky you will get focused a lot less. Wear full dps gear and pray for a healer and you can often top kills and damage meters. I still recommend arms if you care about battlegrounds but who does these days?

8. Execute Range

This is your time to shine and make up some spots on the damage meters. If you have decent fast weapons equip them now as they will give fast steady rage. If your rage spikes above 50 use a Blood thirst then go back to executes.

Wait till you think boss is about 40 seconds from dieing then pop deathwish. When deathwish has 20 seconds left pop recklessness. If you have a shaman in your group start this when he pops blood thirst / heroism.

[ Post edited by Meeks ]

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  • 2. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 06:48:19 AM PDT
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9: Weapon Enchants:

Blue 71 dps weapons: Potency x 2

Epic 80-91 dps weapons: Mongoose main hand potency offhand. Feel free to mongoose both weapons but the offhand will add pretty similar damage to potency so save the money if you want.

Season 2 arena and SSC and beyond: Mongoose x 2

10: Haste

With the upcomming nerf to haste most items with static haste are now inferior to their equal level counterparts. However items with haste procs such as Dragon Spine Trophy and Dragon Strike are still amazing items. More haste means more weapon procs and white damage.

11: Gear:

Here are some basic gear guides to give you a basic overview of upgrades. There are some major disclaimers I would like to point out. The person who calculated that values for stats did so with a low level of gear. As I have stated before as your gear changes the relative value of each stat changes with it. The more str you have the more valuable crit is and vice versa. Just because an item is rated higher then another now does not mean it will always be true.

Also. Haste rating is getting a major nerf in next patch and I am not sure if I has been reevaluated yet on the guides. Armor penetration is also not rated with any points as it is impossible to ptu a exact value to it without knowing your targets armor. This means any item with armor penetration will be rated lower then its actualy value. Those disclaimers aside it is still a good guide.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=111711211&sid=1

And for pre raid gear:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=945365456&sid=1

12: Gemming:

The way I gem is pretty simple. If I do not want the socket bonus I gem 8 str...generally the only sockets bonuses I go for are +str ones. I plan on resocketing my red belt of battle with 2 8 str gems because for some reason I read the socket bonus as 3 str instead of 3 crit before wasting 2 good gems.

If I do decide to pick up a socket bonus here is what i do:
Red: 8 str
Yellow: 4 str / 4 crit
Blue: 4 str / 6stam

Some of my gear does not completely follow these guides. The ones that do not are pieces I have had for a long time that I am waiting on immediately available upgrades to replace instead of regemming.

Meta: I currently use the haste meta(Thundering Skyfire). After the patch goes live and haste rating is nerfed I already have my agi / +crit damage meta(Relentless Earthstorm) made and ready to socket. Once haste is nerfed the Relentless will be the clear winner.

[ Post edited by Meeks ]

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  • 4. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 06:53:17 AM PDT
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I've been looking for a crash course on a decent attack rotation. Read through the guide, nice work. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

Close your eyes, breathe, relax, think...... it is just a game.
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  • 5. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 06:59:01 AM PDT
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It's about damn time you made a guide for DW Fury you fugly gnome. I've been reading your whole DW Fury Hit topic and it seems like alot of warriors in this forum have no freaking clue what they're talking about. You and Graul seemed the most informative. The rest either agreed to not look confused or disagreed and look like total retards.
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  • 6. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:02:14 AM PDT
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I have a question, haven't seen it in to many builds but I have heard for the standard 2/2 execute added to slam. Is this viable for added dps on GCD cooldowns and also what is the threat like on it. Also what's your thoughts on duel wield +20 str vs Mongoose mh 20 str offhand.

http://ctprofiles.net/3160612
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  • 7. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:04:59 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
I have a question, haven't seen it in to many builds but I have heard for the standard 2/2 execute added to slam. Is this viable for added dps on GCD cooldowns and also what is the threat like on it. Also what's your thoughts on duel wield +20 str vs Mongoose mh 20 str offhand.


Slam is a bread abd butter 2 hander skill. Because it has a cast time you can not attack while you are using it. For a DW build this means you loose more damage from not attacking then you gain form the skill.
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  • Aman'Thul
  • 8. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:17:08 AM PDT
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nice ;)

I also get parry and TC in arms for off tanking, tho I've not had unbridled wrath since the change some time back and use 2/5 imp demo shout and 3/5 booming voice.

the 2/5 demo shout is enough according to the testing I've seen and I figure BV just goes that bit further in keeping it up on bosses as I'm not short on rage for UW..

need more rage...

warrior macros: http://tankspot.com/index.php?pageid=MozmanMacros
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=55820235&sid=1
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  • 9. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:20:42 AM PDT
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This topic needs a sticky. You might want to spellcheck your whole guide once you're done. I noticed a few errors here and there.

Also, how well do 2H Fury builds do compared to DW Fury? We have a melee DPS group in our SSC/TK raids where it's comprised of a 2H Fury Warrior, Enhancement Shaman, Feral Druid (Me), and 2 Combat Rogues. We usually have Windfury, Battle Shout, Strength of Earth, Unleashed Rage and my Aura up at almost all times. The two rogues contend for top spot but the warrior is around 4-5 in DPS meters (I would do better if I didn't have to innervate and throw heals once in a while.). I was wondering, if he went DW Fury would there be a noticeable difference in DPS for him?
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  • Earthen Ring
  • 10. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:21:00 AM PDT
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Meeks, any chance you'd be willing to repost this at TankSpot as well? This is great. :)

http://ciderhelm.tankspot.com/ (Blog)
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=1272299605&sid=1 (Warrior Link Directory)
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  • 11. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:21:56 AM PDT
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Nice guide Meeks. Short, simple, too the point, and highly accurate.

This should be stickied, as it is one of the few gems of knowledge on these forums.

In a fight between Batman and Darth Vader, the winner would be Chuck Norris.
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  • 12. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:22:09 AM PDT
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  • 13. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:27:08 AM PDT
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I <3 Meeks.

Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Go away.

Windfury is still broken. Fix it!
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=96122588&sid=1
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  • 14. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:35:50 AM PDT
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Very well informed and well written article. Happy cause it saves me from finishing writing a similar guide in my guild forums, now I can just link my guildies here when they have a question.

Thanks again Meeks

You're Never Alone With Schizophrenia!
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  • Alleria
  • 15. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:37:31 AM PDT
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nice, not a bad guide

just a note on the use of hamstring, while it can no longer proc wind fury, i still find it very useful for keeping flurry up

it doesnt affect the use of HS and although it adds some threat, its not that much



only thing i would ask for if possible (as this would most likely turn into a work in progress) is some more maths showing the dps gains from different stats
i've been working on that myself so i'll try to throw some numbers at you at some point in the future for critique
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  • 16. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:41:59 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
Meeks, any chance you'd be willing to repost this at TankSpot as well? This is great. :)


Done
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  • 17. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:43:45 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
nice, not a bad guide

just a note on the use of hamstring, while it can no longer proc wind fury, i still find it very useful for keeping flurry up

it doesnt affect the use of HS and although it adds some threat, its not that much



only thing i would ask for if possible (as this would most likely turn into a work in progress) is some more maths showing the dps gains from different stats
i've been working on that myself so i'll try to throw some numbers at you at some point in the future for critique


The reason I compare it to HS is that they both have the same amount of bonus threat. If threat is tight I generally will cast a HS over a hamstring.


As to the math. It is really complicated and constantly changes based on current level of gear. If you like the math I woudl suggest reading the warrior dps spreadsheet I linked. Much better place to get into math.
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  • Whisperwind
  • 18. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:48:20 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:
4: Heroic Strike vs. Cleave

Heroic strike adds 176 damage for 196 threat. That is 1.1 threat per bonus damage.
Cleave adds 70 damage for 130 bonus threat. That is 1.8 threat per bonus damage.
.


The difference between the 2 is that cleave's threat is split between 2 targets. Which means the actual threat per target is 65. Which means >1 threat per bonus damage.

Sunder Armor (Rank 6).........301

Heroic Strike(Rank 10)........196

Revenge.(Rank 8)..............201 (as of patch 2.1)

Shield Bash.(Rank 4)..........230

Shield Slam (Rank 6)..........307

Devastate.....................101

Thunder Clap..................+75% of damage done

Execute.......................+25% of damage done

Cleave (Rank 6)...............130 (threat split)

Demoralizing Shout.(Rank 7)...56 (threat split)

Battle Shout(Rank 8)..........69 (threat split)

Commanding Shout(Rank 1)......68 (threat split)

Hamstring(Rank 4).............181

Disarm........................104

Spell Reflect.................0

Piercing Howl.................0

Concussion Blow...............0

copied and pasted from: http://evilempireguild.org/guides/kenco2.php

[ Post edited by Ilovelamp ]

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  • 19. Re: Full Dw fury guide/FAQ   08/27/2007 07:50:01 AM PDT
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Q u o t e:


The difference between the 2 is that cleave's threat is split between 2 targets. Which means the actual threat per target is 65. Which means >1 threat per bonus damage.


If you are attacking one boss like a raid boss then they get all the threat. Threat is only halved if it hits two targets.
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