...And asked a thousand times on the forums. (Now with sticky action!)


*** YOU DO NOT NEED TO READ THE ENTIRE THREAD TO GET MOST ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS ***

Read the first two posts of Q/A. If you have a question that is not covered in the first two posts of this thread, ASK IT IN THE THREAD, I do read this thread frequently and will answer interesting general questions that are not already covered.

DON'T START A NEW THREAD, ask the question here, and I'll update it. The sticky is here for a reason. This is not a Raid exclusive thread, nor a PvE exclusive thread, all questions are welcome and any good ones will be answered.



(See also Manlys thread over on EJ: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t37364-frostfire_bolt_thread/ for some more in depth exploration)


Q: What is FFB? When do I get it?
A: FFB is Frost Fire Bolt, a spell learned at level 75. It deals special 'FrostFire' damage, applies a small DoT, and a snare effect. Its basically a hibrid fireball/frostbolt.


Q: Is it worth it to spec FFB at level 75?
A: I specced FFB at 75 and ended up really enjoying having a snare but still playing like a fire mage. Your mileage may vary, respecs are cheap, try it out and see if you like it.


Q: Am I ready for FFB? Is my gear good enough to support it?
A: In current mechanics (3.1.3) FFB is competitive in Naxx-10/25 / OS-10/25 content, and performs well in some Ulduar encounters. If you are able to competently play the spec, your gear can support it.

Will it necessarily be the best spec for you? That is entirely dependent on the type of spec you enjoy playing. Theory-Crafting tools can give you a mathematical answer to this question, but it is best decided by experience.


Q: So what kind of damage does it do? Frost or Fire?
A: It ALWAYS does 'Frost Fire' damage, it never changes damage types, it always does Frost Fire. Previously in Beta it swapped back and forth between Frost and Fire damage depending on the targets immunities or resistances, this is *no longer the case!*

Q: Which talents increase FFBs damage? What procs can it generate?
A: Just about every talent that influences frost or fire spells. This includes:

Fire
- Ignite
- Impact
- Burning Soul
- Master of Elements
- Playing with Fire
- Critical Mass
- Fire Power
- Pyromaniac
- Combustion
- Molten Fury
- Empowered Flame
- Hot Streak
- Burnout

Frost
- Frostbite
- Ice Shards
- Permafrost
- Elemental Precision
- Piercing Ice
- Frost Channeling
- Winters Chill
- Arctic Winds
- Fingers of Frost
- Chilled To the Bone



Q: So does it only use the fire talents when its doing fire damage? Frost talents when doing frost damage?
A: It always uses all of them, remember it does Frost Fire damage. The only caveat is the proc effects that generate debufffs (Ignite, Impact, Winters Chill, etc) won't trigger if a target is immune to that school. So no WC on a frost immune target, but it will still get the damage benefit of Piercing Ice.



Q: I heard it double dipped some talents?
A: During beta at several points FFB did double dip (get double benefit from) some talents, at present (3.0.8) it currently only has been shown to double dip Mind Mastery (http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=14133414779).


Q: Why not Flame Throwing? Empowered Frostbolt? Improved Frostbolt/Fireball? Torment of the Weak?
A:

Flame Throwing
- FFBs range is 40 yards, no talents increase it.

Empowered Frostbolt
- Blizzard didn't feel the need to include it in this talent

Improved Frostbolt/Fireball
- FFBs cast time is 3.0 seconds, and is not modified by any talents (other than Netherwind Presense, obviously)

Torment of the Weak
- Torment only works if the target can be snared by your snare. Raid bosses, and targets immune to the FFB snare effect (meaning their movement speed is not reduced) will *NOT* take increased damage while the FFB snare is active on them.


Q: So with permafrost, if I put two points in it and get an extra 4 seconds on the snare, will I get an extra DoT tick?
A: Yes, you will and three points will give two extra ticks since it ticks at a three second frequency. This is not considered a significant DPS gain in any way shape fashion or form.


Q: How does it work with the two threat reduction talents?
A: based on testing ( http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12661303549&sid=1&pageNo=11#211 ) it seems to gain benefit from one, or the other, but not both at once. Speccing into both is not bad, pushback and mana reduction, but is not beneficial for threat purposes.


Q: What about Fireball and Frostbolt Glyphs?
A: Nope, FFB has its own glyph, and does not gain benefit from the frostbolt or fireball ones.


Q: So what is my hit cap for a FFB build with Precision?
A: The general rule of thumb for hit caps is you want 17% between talents, gear, and debuffs. FFB No longer double dips elemental precision, so to be hit capped with 3/3 Precision you now need:

No Debuffs: 14 * 26.23 = 367.22
Moonkin/Spriest: 11 * 26.23 = 288.53
Moonkin/Spriest + Draenei: 10 * 26.23 = 262.3
Draenei: 13 * 26.23 = 340.99

For more info on hit rating, see the hit sticky ( http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=7475660772&sid=1 )

Q: So what happens against a fire immune boss? Frost immune?
A: The spell always does "Frost Fire" damage, when it strikes a target immune to a given school the debuffs from that school won't work (WC on frost immune, ignite on fire immune), but it will do its normal damage.


Q: Does it use my fire or frost crit chance? spell power? what about hit chance? penetrative resists?
A:
Crit Chance
- No effects in the game currently exist that only increase your frost crit chance. It will use the highest of your two, that is, fire crit talents do increase it. It is unclear what would happen if you did have a frost crit increase talent aswell.

Spell Power
- Uncertain, in the Beta it was documented to use the highest, but the Mind Mastery test called this into question.

Hit Chance
- No effect currently exists to increase only frost or fire, EP is the only one that increases them and it does both.

Penetrative Resists
- The lower of the two values will be used to decide if a partial resist occurs.


Q: How does it interact with all those crit modifiers?
A: When specced 5/5 Ignite 5/5 Burnout 3/3 Ice Shards FFB does 315% crit damage. The formula to explain this is:

(1 + (0.5 * (1 + 1.0 Ice Shards + 0.5 Burnout))) * 1.4 Ignite = 3.15


Q: Since FFB is such a high crit damage bonus spell, does that mean Crit is better than Hit now? Better than Spell Power? Better than Haste?
A: Depends on your current stats. I highly suggest using a TheoryCrafting tool to isolate what will benefit you the most. Rawr, the TCoM, and Magegraf all generally accurately depict FFB damage output.

Hit
- Not for a very long time unless your stats are obscenely unbalanced. Being hit capped is important, mmkay?

Spell Power
- Not for a very long time unless your crit chance is obscenely low

Haste
- This one is a lot closer than the others, but the relative balance of the two shift back and forth as you add and remove gear. It is HIGHLY recommended you use a TC tool to make these decisions, there is no clear cut rule for FFB.


For the TheoryCrafting tools listed above:

Rawr.Mage: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t37825-rawr_mage/
TCoM: http://zaldinar.bounceme.net/tcom/
MageGraf: http://www.magegraf.com


Q: That's crap! I have a WWS parse showing Hotstreaked Pyros being super uber! Crit is so wonderful!
A: If you enjoy crit based builds, if you enjoy being insanely good on some fights, then sub-par on others for lack of crits, then that is your perogative. In general TC we speak about damage in terms of average. If you like crit, by all means gear for it, but it is not the new godsend, it is on par with Haste depending on your relative gear levels, but it is not insane.

Q: When I get counter spelled, which school does it lock out?
A: Both frost and fire schools are locked out. FFB in PvP, not a great plan.


Q: What if my fire tree is counter spelled? Can I still cast it? What about the frost tree?
A: If either is locked out then FFB will be unable to cast.


Q: What is FFBs spell power coefficient? Is it like frostbolts?
A: No, conspicuously FFB does *NOT* suffer the penalty that frostbolt does (supposedly for the snare), and has a standardized 3/3.5 coefficient.


Q: What is the best FFB build?
A: There are two main flavors of FFB builds, Fire heavy, and Frost heavy. Frost heavy is generally junk, and comes out just below regular deep frost on expected DPS. Fire heavy is currently (as of early 3.1 research and theory work) considered the third highest DPS spec, behind Arcane and Torment/Fireball. An example of the cookie cutter build would be:

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=00000000000000000000000000000003050320123033300531203003512033030310030000000000000000

The points in Burning Soul and Frost Channeling are movable if you desire, two points need to be put into tier 1 fire to allow the rest of the tree to be filled out. (Apparently it wasn't obvious enough)


An example of a Frost Heavy FFB Build would be:

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=23000500010000000000000000000023050000000000000000000000002033030311033100230050231350

Or an elementalist style build deeper into frost:

http://www.wowarmory.com/talent-calc.xml?cid=8&tal=00000000000000000000000000000023050300023031300500000000002033230313033100230150201000


The chomping order goes Fire Heavy > Elementalist > Frost Heavy, with a significant margin between the first two.


Q: What glyphs should I be using post 3.2.2?
A: The ranking of glyphs is roughly:

Living Bomb
Molten Armor / FFB (depending on spirit and if you have 2pt9)
Improved Scorch

Living Bombs value is highly dependent on your living bomb uptime, the closer you get to 100% uptime (realistically impossible) then better the glyph gets. Post 3.2.2 with the new combustion it will get even better if used correctly. I suggest using Rawr to isolate the best glyph combination for you if you are concerned with mathy values.


Q: Is the new (3.2.2) combustion worth taking? How should I use it?
A: Yes it definitely is. You should use it in conjunction with any clicky trinkets you have, IV, flame cap, mana gem, etc, anything that increases your damage in any way. Use it following a LB explosion, preferably with all other cooldowns, cast LB, then start nuking as normal.

There is still some debate about using a FFB->Fireblast combination on the 3rd crit of the combustion, as this can sometimes yield two crits both gaining the damage benefit from combustion (for a total of 4 big crits from the combustion), the math for this is as yet uncertain, FFB->HS Pyro can sometimes produce a similar result, but it is inconsistent and should not be considered a sure bet by any means.


Q: What spell rotation should I be using for bosses with FFB?
A: FFB builds have a system of priorities, not really a static rotation. In a general sense, this is what to consider:

1) Does Scorch need to be refreshed? Would another spell choice make me unable to refresh it in time? If so, refresh.
2) Does Living Bomb need to be refreshed? Will the target live to the explosion? If so, refresh.
3) Do you have a HS buff to use? If so, Pyro.
4) Otherwise, FFB


Q: So does that mean we shouldn't let the Living Bomb explode on the target and refresh it before it goes off?
A: You can't. Living Bomb at full rank can't be reapplied to the same target once it is active until it explodes.


Q: What about if there's a Frost mage or Affliction lock or Scorch-Designatee in the raid?
A: If you are not responsible with maintaining scorch, just skip that priority, the rest stays the same.


Q: What about near 100% crit situations (Loetheb)? Or extreme haste situations (That guy in Ulduar)?
A: For near 100% crit / extreme haste situations my recommendation is to save Living Bomb for when you're required to move. The math on this isn't really definitive, but LB crits can generate oddly timed HS procs in your rotation, which can sometimes result in lost procs. In insane haste situations (talking way beyond Icy Veins and Heroism) Living Bomb stops being worth casting, but pyros don't. So, the same goes for haste as for crit, use it when you have to move.


Q: Why no fireblast in the rotations?
A: Generally fireblast is discouraged because the benefit it provides is so small as compared to its mana cost. If you really are keen on it, and or just trying to inch out more damage towards the end of the fight, its priority would be above FFB, but below HS Pyros in the list.


Q: What about AoE situations?
A: Another list of priorities:

1) Will this and all targets live for 12 seconds or more? If so, LB.
2) Do you have a full rank flamestrike ground DoT going? If not, Flamestrike full rank
3) Do you have a rank 8 flamestrike ground DoT going? If not, Flamestrike rank 8
4) Otherwise, Blizzard

Remember that Flamestrike is best used on targets that won't move alot and will take the full effect from the DoT. You may find it useful to just pepper LBs around and then Flamestrike->Blizzard. All up to you and how quickly your raid does AoE encounters.


Q: Is there an addon to help me track Hotstreak procs? If so, how do I set it up?
A: Power Auras ( http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/powerauras-classic.aspx ) is a common one.

To set it up, download the addon, and configure it to watch for the Hot Streak buff and display a given texture on your screen. In my case, my configuration looks like this:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120/nkthrasher/Misc/powerauraconfig.jpg

Causing the orange teeth like structures to appear above my character when he is in combat, in a raid, and has the hotstreak buff. Fully configured with other options it looks like this:

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r120/nkthrasher/Misc/powerauradisplay.jpg

Where the red semi-circles represent Imp Scorch, teeth on the bottom represent my Living Bomb, Snowflake / Fireball Icy Veins and Combustion, Blue and Green ! triangles representing mana and health. All up to you how you want to configure it, as with all addons.

Reported for Sticky.

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Q u o t e:

DISCLAIMER:

I do not yet have FFB on live, this is all from testing on Beta and chatter on the forums. Feel free to correct me, but please provide documentation on why you are saying I am wrong.


Active Requests for Confirmation:

- Burning Soul pushback resistance
- DoT scaling, does spell power increase it?
- Pushback immunity under IV?

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First of all sticky this PLEASE.

Also: get frost channeling the threat reduction does not work on FFB but the mana cost is for ALL spells.
However burning soul: FFB is in the FIRE part of your spell book it IS a FIRE spell. The threat reduction does work from this talent. As far as pushback goes, i'm assuming it does as well, however i have not had time to test it.

Edit: Said something very stupid. Apoligies to anyone who read before the fix.

Bump for Sticky!

Bump. Sticky Please ; )

Reported for sticky

Request for sticky.

I do have one question though, does the DPS increase of having and using Living bomb completely out way the use of Cold Snap. I realise Cold Snap is much less effective without Water Element etc. However, I still enjoy the benefits of a double IV, and Frost Nova in certain circumstances.

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Q u o t e:
Request for sticky.

I do have one question though, does the DPS increase of having and using Living bomb completely out way the use of Cold Snap. I realise Cold Snap is much less effective without Water Element etc. However, I still enjoy the benefits of a double IV, and Frost Nova in certain circumstances.

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There's no way that 15 more seconds of IV will outweigh constant use of LB unless the fight happens to last approx 15 seconds.

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Q u o t e:


First of all sticky this PLEASE.

Also: get frost channeling the threat reduction does not work on FFB but the mana cost is for ALL spells.
However burning soul: FFB is in the FIRE part of your spell book it IS a FIRE spell. The threat reduction does work from this talent. As far as pushback goes, i'm assuming it does as well, however i have not had time to test it.

Edit: Said something very stupid. Apoligies to anyone who read before the fix.

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first hit gives me a .2sec pushback iirc. which is .2 out of .5 possible.

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Q u o t e:

DISCLAIMER:

- Pushback immunity under IV?

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doesn't seem to work. I was still taking a displayed 0.2 pushback using FFB while IV was up, while I take no pushback on Fireball while IV is up.

To cast FFB do I need to have both fire and frost unlocked?

bump

Burning soul is working correctly with ffb for me. The pushback I mean, I have no way to test the threat accurately.

Bump for great sticky justice!



EDIT: On second thought, that doesn't sound right at all. o.O

it does identical damage to frostbolt, but less damage than a straight fireball. Obv due to the coefficient being 0.5 secs less. However this is made up for by its crit modifier which is off the hook.

bump for sticky