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Q u o t e:


You might want to reread his posts. They are on MMO-Champ for your reference.

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Please don't use what Ghostcrawler has said in the past as anything to help your argument now. Retribution paladins have pages upon pages of Ghostcrawler saying the spec was fine and balanced, that specific abilities were working as intended and possibly even underpowered, only to do a complete 180 a few weeks later. That's just how the development process works, things change.

While the stealth thing was overpowered and kind of obviously broken, I think anyone who has fought a druid or a team with one will agree that it's nowhere near as bleak as you make it seem. Starfall is probably one of the most annoying things in a moonkin druid's arsenal.

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Q u o t e:


you want a lackluster 51pt talent do a search for hunger for blood.

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So because you feel hunger for blood is a bit weak, then we have absolutely no say as to whether our almost useless 51 pointer can get improvements.

K.

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Q u o t e:
Uses I have found for starfall in PvE:

-- pop it while rebirthing to keep dps on the target
-- Also pop it with IS and MF if you're having to run extensively
-- tighly-packed mobs: trinket+starfall+bark/hurricane
-- If additional burst is needed in a hurry, it's an easy thing to mix in a mf/SF3/Wrath rotation

Not all of these things happen all the time, making the cooldown not that detrimental to the talent.

Times when starfall's not a good idea:
-- Loose mobs running about
-- mana-straining fights with little chance to get some 5 sec rule regen going
-- just before boss fights and when you know big tough pulls are coming.

Those of these can be addressed by looking around.

So two things in starfall's favor: yes, it's situational, but starfall can be applied to a number of situations.
And yes, the cooldown bothered me at first, and I still wouldn't mind it being two minutes, but it's unnceccesary ultimately.

But saying it's 99.99 percent uselss is highly overdramatic.

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As far as your aoe arguments go, dropping that one point from starfall into gale winds will net you a DPS increase. Yes, I guess if you cannot cast anything else, starfall is a button to push in a boss fight. You're treating it essentially like the way any class can treat a dot... However it is also very mana inefficient in a boss fight when comparing the damage done. I don't think a "third dot" on a 3minute cooldown is anywhere in the ballpark of being "useful."

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Q u o t e:


until you work for blizzard it is not a bug. they changed the stealth code because stealth was bugged. by changing the stealth code starfall no longer works as a fishing spell. one can say that because stealth was bugged, it caused a bug for starfall to not work properly

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Thank you for validating my initial post, and crushing your OWN argument.

I pulled a Rogue out of stealth with Starfall on my Boomkin at around 10pm PST last night, so I dunno what on earth you're talking about.

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Q u o t e:
I pulled a Rogue out of stealth with Starfall on my Boomkin at around 10pm PST last night, so I dunno what on earth you're talking about.

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Was he standing next to someone else? or within 5 yards of you?

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Q u o t e:
I pulled a Rogue out of stealth with Starfall on my Boomkin at around 10pm PST last night, so I dunno what on earth you're talking about.

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If you did, it was udner these circumstances:

1) He was standing very close to someone who got hit, getting hit by the AOE. (As a warlock, you should be familiar with how Seed of Corruption works)
2) You could see him in stealth due to your stealth detection (Proximity sighting, and any class at that point can pull them out of stealth)

It should be noted that the original design, and confirmed by GC to be the original design, is to have starfall target and take rogues out of stealth, regardless of their surroundings. I dont care that this specific functionality doesnt exist anymore. I care that now NO functionality exists anymore.

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Q u o t e:


Let me get this straight. It is fair for moonkin to make stealth, the only thing that stops rogues from instantly dying in the arena, useless, because some other classes have small AoEs with no cooldown. Right...so you would horrendously bias, correct?

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No, I'm saying your arguement is invalid because other classes have AoE not on A 3 min CD.
Additionally, please read the rest of the posts as this cannot phish for stealthed rogues.

I believe the issue is not only PvP based. We are looking for either:

1) An increase in damage
2) A decrease in the CD
3) A decrease in the mana cost

I won't deny this spell is situationally useful, however the loss of mana regen from it and the meager damage doesn't warrant its use except for PvE AoE.


EDIT: Personally, the Starfall + cheetah was a nice tactic to use to run from a Pally. The stun proc is still beneficial.

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Q u o t e:
If you did, it was udner these circumstances:

1) He was standing very close to someone who got hit, getting hit by the AOE. (As a warlock, you should be familiar with how Seed of Corruption works)
2) You could see him in stealth due to your stealth detection (Proximity sighting, and any class at that point can pull them out of stealth)

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Nope, it was out in an open field in EOTS. He ran up to me, 40-50 yards away he stealthed, I popped Starfall, ran forward a bit, and zig-zagged backwards (so he'd slowly come into range of SF). He popped out of stealth around 20 yards from me.

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Q u o t e:
I pulled a Rogue out of stealth with Starfall on my Boomkin at around 10pm PST last night, so I dunno what on earth you're talking about.

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Hi Bibdy!

I haven't been able to reveal anyone who was stealthed, shadow melded or invisible since Tuesday....

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Q u o t e:

Please don't use what Ghostcrawler has said in the past as anything to help your argument now. Retribution paladins have pages upon pages of Ghostcrawler saying the spec was fine and balanced, that specific abilities were working as intended and possibly even underpowered, only to do a complete 180 a few weeks later. That's just how the development process works, things change.

While the stealth thing was overpowered and kind of obviously broken, I think anyone who has fought a druid or a team with one will agree that it's nowhere near as bleak as you make it seem. Starfall is probably one of the most annoying things in a moonkin druid's arsenal.

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4 Talent points for a 10-second duration, RNG-based stun on a 3 minute cooldownm that can be canceled by just about every class. If you fight a moonkin team, and you see a moon over its head? STUN IT. Fear it. CC it. Starfall COMPLETELY stops while CC'ed. Do you sit there and ignore a pally with wings?

And don't get me wrong, I think Starfall, and Boomkin in general, are quite deep into Sucksville, Arizona territory in PvP.

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Q u o t e:


Nope, it was out in an open field in EOTS. He ran up to me, 40-50 yards away he stealthed, I popped Starfall, ran forward a bit, and zig-zagged backwards (so he'd slowly come into range of SF). He popped out of stealth around 20 yards from me.

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Was he sub 70? They're allowed into the max level bracket now, and you can see them a mile away. I was unable to see stealthers last evening, so unless a hotfix was applied.... the issue still stands.

A suggestion made BY A ROGUE in the druid forums. I thought it was a good idea, so I thought I would share.

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Q u o t e:
It seems like a 36 yard range to bring Rogues or Druids out of Stealth is a little bit much. Of course, Starfall also depends on you not being stunned, feared, gouged, etc. So, I have a solution that should make the Rogues happy and should make the Boomkins happy.

Starfall should only bring people out of Stealth within half of the range that the Stars can hit (15-18). This makes Druids able to bring them out of Stealth without making it impossible for the Rogues to actually get the opener.
Starfall should not be negated by Crowd Control. A Rogue could Blind, Gouge, or Stun away a 51 point talent; could you imagine the cries if Water Elemental stopped working if the Mage was under CC? I also think the damage should be increased slightly, because it seems slightly lackluster for a 51 pointer.

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Sounds good to me.

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Q u o t e:
I won't deny this spell is situationally useful, however the loss of mana regen from it and the meager damage doesn't warrant its use except for PvE AoE.

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I agree, and even then, putting that One point into Gale Winds will benefit you more in PvE AoE.

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Q u o t e:
Was he sub 70? They're allowed into the max level bracket now, and you can see them a mile away. I was unable to see stealthers last evening, so unless a hotfix was applied.... the issue still stands.

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IF they dotn want to restore this functionality then they should definately give it some sort of functionality.

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Q u o t e:
We are still evaluating whether we like the change to the way Starfall works or not. I will say that Starfall was not designed as the Flare for druids.

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I am fine with the destealthing properties being removed, but I think with the recent changes to the spell, it is falling short of what I feel a 51 point talent should be.

Hence, I am going to keep suggesting possible changes to improve the spell in different ways.

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Q u o t e:


Boomkin do not suck in pvp. I think even the boomkin wanting starfall to unstealth rogues across an entire zone would not say they suck.

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This isn't a PVP thread. If you would like to discuss PVP moonkins I suggest going to this forum. http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/board.html?forumId=11117&sid=1 I personally agree with you, I dont think boomkin suck. I think that STARFALL sucks. And IFF sucks too, but theres another thread on that.

This is a thread on starfall. Now I know you haven't contributed anything useful to this, and youve been reported for trolling already, but if you feel that you want to elaborate your discussion about starfall, go ahead.