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Q u o t e:
I think it's safe to say probably every paladin has experienced the bug at this point whether they're really aware of it or not. I think the most helpful thing paladins could do now is to try and reliably reproduce the bug. Even if the devs know that the bug exists, fixing it is going to be difficult if they don't have some idea of why it's happening.

So then, has anyone been able to reliably reproduce the judgement bug in a controlled situation?

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Agreed. Also, keep in mind when post SS and Vids disable all your Mods for it, Blizz tends the blame mods for your problems first. Especially, I saw someone post 3 pics of this effect but he had a combat log mod, blizzard would never trust that.

This is an extremely irritating bug, that happens quite often. Anyone who plays a paladin, and pays attention while doing so, would notice it.

I trust GC knows about it, and it is probably just a bugger to solve it.

I didn't notice it UNTIL reading this thread. Was doing a Heroic Utgarde Keep and, on fights where I could afford tow atch the numbers, it became apparent the bug was real. Surprised the heck outta me!

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Q u o t e:
I think it's safe to say probably every paladin has experienced the bug at this point whether they're really aware of it or not. I think the most helpful thing paladins could do now is to try and reliably reproduce the bug. Even if the devs know that the bug exists, fixing it is going to be difficult if they don't have some idea of why it's happening.

So then, has anyone been able to reliably reproduce the judgement bug in a controlled situation?

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This is a really really easy bug to reproduce,just judge a target that already has the judgement that you are casting.


and the reason this bug exists is because of blizzards *#**ty retarded half assed hotfix coding for refreshing judgement debuffs

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Q u o t e:

This is a really really easy bug to reproduce,just judge a target that already has the judgement that you are casting.


and the reason this bug exists is because of blizzards *#**ty retarded half assed hotfix coding for refreshing judgement debuffs

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That is not repeatable. To make life easier they need something that will always cause it to happen, every time. A bug that happens every now and then is far far more hassle to pin down. The ret community has far more playing time on ret than blizz so if anyone notices a gear or buff set up that causes it to happen all the time it would probably be a huge help to blizzard.

And to comment on something from GC at MMO champion:

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Q u o t e:
Upcoming class changes and hotfixes
If I have announcements of upcoming class changes, I will post them. I'm not going to wait for an invitation or a post to ask about it. So you are almost never going to see a response to a list of concerns include "Okay, here are all the changes we're making." I do that sometimes, but usually just because I see a convenient spot to list the changes.

When someone asks "Do you know about these issues?" sometimes I will respond that yes we are looking into it. Most of the time I don't even respond at all because I can't answer 200 threads a day.

Our answer is almost always, ALMOST ALWAYS, going to be one of the following:

-- We don't think it's a problem.
-- We are worried it might be a problem, so we're gathering more information. <-- the warlock issues you do mention are somewhere between here and the next bullet at the moment.
-- We think it is a problem, so we're trying to figure out a solution.
-- We think it is a problem, and we have a solution, but now is not the right time to release it (perhaps it is technically difficult or a later change will fix the problem anyway).

So it is disheartening to us when you take our announcement of "we're looking into it" as disheartening because most of the time, that's what the answer will be. (Source)

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i think he is missing an awful lot of the reason behind this thread. A single comment three weeks ago on a major bug in what was the most broken spec for TBC, and is already the most nerfed in WotLK is really not good enough.

There is one main thread on this. You can easily find it. All you need do is tell us you are still working on it and people would probably accept that.

But unsurprisingly we remember how long it took to get balanced for TBC (3.0.2 did the job, well TBH over did it a little), and a huge bug in our main DPS ability and our main replenishment ability is massive and has an awful lot of ret pallys wondering if things are back to business as usual for ret and all the words about ret being fine and fixed during beta and at blizzcon were just a lot of hot air.

GC, an update on where you are on fixing this would be great. And if you are having issues finding the bug go to the community.

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Q u o t e:

But unsurprisingly we remember how long it took to get balanced for TBC (3.0.2 did the job, well TBH over did it a little), and a huge bug in our main DPS ability and our main replenishment ability is massive and has an awful lot of ret pallys wondering if things are back to business as usual for ret and all the words about ret being fine and fixed during beta and at blizzcon were just a lot of hot air.

GC, an update on where you are on fixing this would be great. And if you are having issues finding the bug go to the community.

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This is just like the SOC bug all over again. Its going to be a very long time until we see a fix for this. Blizz has shown that they could care less about the Pally class. GC said that things would be different and that he wants Pallys to be competitive again. Nothing has changed. Over a month of this bug and we get a short reply and that's it. They were so quick to Nerf us, but to fix us...it will take months. Don't get your hopes up.

I also find it funny that i opened an in game ticket about this and was told that it was being caused by Addon's and that I should disable them all to fix the problem.

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Q u o t e:


This is just like the SOC bug all over again. Its going to be a very long time until we see a fix for this. Blizz has shown that they could care less about the Pally class. GC said that things would be different and that he wants Pallys to be competitive again. Nothing has changed. Over a month of this bug and we get a short reply and that's it. They were so quick to Nerf us, but to fix us...it will take months. Don't get your hopes up.

I also find it funny that i opened an in game ticket about this and was told that it was being caused by Addon's and that I should disable them all to fix the problem.

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Out of curiosity did you disable them all, and was it still bugged? I assume it is because I can not see how an add on could affect combat or the combat log in any way.

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Q u o t e:


Out of curiosity did you disable them all, and was it still bugged? I assume it is because I can not see how an add on could affect combat or the combat log in any way.

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I knew it wasn't that because i knew all other Pallys had seen the problem. I did disable them anyways and of course, it still happened. I didn't want to waste my time opening another ticket so i could get another filler answer from the GM. Its not a UI issue. If it were we would still see an effect of some sort on the mob, or a refresh of replenishment, or a mana return, or maybe a "miss" in combat log. I told the GM this but they didn't want to listen.

Here is a test I would love to do but I'm at work.



Unlearn your talent points. Remove all your gear.

Find a buddy with anti-crit talents and resilience gear.


Keep casting the same Judgment on him. I'm betting if it doesn't crit it will always disappear. From what I've seen the bug seems to happen when the Judgment you're using is already on the target and the Judgment you cast doesn't crit.

It only seems to happen about 30% of the time because I've got 52% something Judgment crit with Fanaticism and gear, and probably a third of the time the target doesn't yet have a judgment on it.

I have noticed this bug on my little Ret.

I support the fix. It is similar to an old FD bug. Occasionally you would hit Feign Death and the only thing that would happen is the cooldown. Very annoying.

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Q u o t e:
I can't visit each thread every day and make updates, especially when I have no new information.

We are trying to track this issue (Judgements sometimes failing) down. We aren't sure what is causing this and we can't come up with a situation that causes it reliably so we can figure out what's happening. More information from players about what situations seem to reproduce the bug will be more helpful than just posting "still happening" over and over. Yes, we know it is still happening. We just don't know why.

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If we do a cast sequence of Judgement of Light, Judment of Wisdom it happens less. UNLESS there is another paladin casting one of those.

It would seem to be tied to casting on top of another Judment debuff of the same type.

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Q u o t e:
I can't visit each thread every day and make updates, especially when I have no new information.

We are trying to track this issue (Judgements sometimes failing) down. We aren't sure what is causing this and we can't come up with a situation that causes it reliably so we can figure out what's happening. More information from players about what situations seem to reproduce the bug will be more helpful than just posting "still happening" over and over. Yes, we know it is still happening. We just don't know why.

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These are the 3 highest failure rate situations:

1. Refreshing the same Judgement (Light on Light, Wisdom on Wisdom)
2. Judging right after GCD when CS and DS are still on their own internal cooldowns
3. Leading with a Judge on a new target

Also, the lack of progress is a little disheartening. Can't you just roll back the same hot fixes that broke the judgements?

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Q u o t e:
I can't visit each thread every day and make updates, especially when I have no new information.

We are trying to track this issue (Judgements sometimes failing) down. We aren't sure what is causing this and we can't come up with a situation that causes it reliably so we can figure out what's happening. More information from players about what situations seem to reproduce the bug will be more helpful than just posting "still happening" over and over. Yes, we know it is still happening. We just don't know why.

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Thanks for the update.

As for reproducing it, I've noticed that it happens much more often if there's another paladin judgeing the same judgement. For instance, Healadin will judge light at the start of an encounter, I'll judge light as my normal rotation. From what I can tell, that first judgement from me has a high chance to fail. I've also noticed that even if it doesn't fail, it doesn't reapply JoL. Is that working as intended?

In a 10man / 25man judging the mob with the same judge that you have done previously after using crusader strike or divine storm and mashing the judge key to get it out before another cd is up.

This reliably happens 100% of the time.

If a different-spec'd paladin's seal is causing it, it might be because that seal provides different (more powerful?) benefits.

For example:


HOLY PALADIN: Judgements of the Pure = 15% melee/ranged haste for caster
RET PALADIN: Heart of the Crusader = 3% more damage taken by target


Could these be causing same-type judgements by different-spec'd paladins to interfere with one another?


-T

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Q u o t e:
If a different-spec'd paladin's seal is causing it, it might be because that seal provides different (more powerful?) benefits.

For example:


HOLY PALADIN: Judgements of the Pure = 15% melee/ranged haste for caster
RET PALADIN: Heart of the Crusader = 3% more damage taken by target


Could these be causing same-type judgements by different-spec'd paladins to interfere with one another?


-T

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I find it unlikely. The haste is in no way linked to the judged mob.

From the 3.0.3 Patch Notes:

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Q u o t e:
Judgements: The debuffs from Judgement of Light, Judgement of Wisdom, and Judgement of Justice will no longer be applied if the Judgement spell itself misses.

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This is more than likely the cause.