I tried to look for any references to these two issues me and a cpl friends were finding out yesterday, but we seemed to have ALL had the same issue and even when asking outside hunters they were surprised to see the same.

Issue#1:

Volley seems Broken ATM. I am under the impression as I aggro and hold many mobs (or single) and shooting/Casting "Volley" (a semi basic kinda channeling hit) I should still be able to auto shoot my tabbed target regardless of where it is as long as it's in range and tgt'd. After testing on NPC'csAND the tgt dummies in org the Graphic SHOWS shots going, but no hits... kinda like goin through the motions of shooting but with no resulting damage.

Issue#2:

51 point Pet Advantage... I , as was many other hunters, was excited about the new exotic pets and their intended higher DPS as a perc from going into that portion of a hunter tree/spec. I understand the re-arranging of pet abilities and dmg (er CAT) and such, but heres my issue and why I dumped 51 point ATM. Me and a friend spent 45 minutes pulling out ALL our pets and comparing DPS and DMG done... Understandably I was under the impression there was an advantage to having a Devilsaur as a pet with it's alleged higher pet dps. After running ALL pets through both SHOT supported and solo we came to the conclusion that the cat still out DPS's the dino by our tests at least 5+%. Even with the possibility of Focus starvation as a contributing factor... we found that NOT to be an issue as I regularly had 3x stacks of Monsterous Bite NOT shot supported and although it did periodically dip to 1-2 stack unsupported... I had zero issues when shot supported keeping it stacked and refreshed without focus starvation being an issue.


Thanks for the time and if neone else seems to have these issues I can't see them being a "hiccup" as we spen the better part of over an hour playing with the dummies and NPC mobs.

As a result I went back to 50/11 since a bit of a benefit to focus far outweighs the non payoff for the fifty first point so i can have a pet that just looks different but has no advantage or eve match for my cat and it's already semi-dmg nerf.

Mulisha

My understanding is #1 is not a bug - we don't actually autoshot at the same time as volleying.

#2 exotic pets are NOT supposed to be flat-out superior. They have a nifty pet racial. And if you're testing without Go For The Throat, which you have to, I just don't think the test results are valid.

But the issue of not being able to have the 51-pt talent and GFTT will disappear within a week of the expansion. :)

Well as far as the Voley thing goes, when the BIG change to volley happened and it became a very worthwhile attack rather than a usless semi channeling pretty spell... As volley (pre 3.03) auto shots were "shot through the volley" and that was the distinct advantage over just AOE volleyin' an area.

As far as the pet thing goes, Ill concede that it might be based on lvl 80 build and the advatage may show there, but the same benefit that hits a dino with GFTT will simularly benefit my cat or other NON-exotic. ATM I feel that the intention for having to go or wanting to go 51 points into our BM tree is more than asthetic in nature and was intended to give at the very least a small advantage to carrying though to the end of that tree. Either way ATM there is zero advantage to Exotics and if there isnt a "Something" buff at 80 (aside from a cpl unique pet abilities... i.e. the wasp for PvP) Why go that far? Not talking like a 15% increase in Exotic BM hunters but someting a bit more I felt was intended by Blizz as a reward for extending the tree to its fullest.

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Q u o t e:
Well as far as the Voley thing goes, when the BIG change to volley happened and it became a very worthwhile attack rather than a usless semi channeling pretty spell... As volley (pre 3.03) auto shots were "shot through the volley" and that was the distinct advantage over just AOE volleyin' an area.

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Autoshots never shot through volley. It was unlinked from steady, but you never would have done an autoshot during a volley channel.

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Q u o t e:
As far as the pet thing goes, Ill concede that it might be based on lvl 80 build and the advatage may show there, but the same benefit that hits a dino with GFTT will simularly benefit my cat or other NON-exotic. ATM I feel that the intention for having to go or wanting to go 51 points into our BM tree is more than asthetic in nature and was intended to give at the very least a small advantage to carrying though to the end of that tree. Either way ATM there is zero advantage to Exotics and if there isnt a "Something" buff at 80 (aside from a cpl unique pet abilities... i.e. the wasp for PvP) Why go that far? Not talking like a 15% increase in Exotic BM hunters but someting a bit more I felt was intended by Blizz as a reward for extending the tree to its fullest.

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They mentioned they may boost exotic specials to make the pets do 10% more damage, but I think they are waiting for people to start raiding at 80 to see how the damage ends up.

er FYI on the Volley thing:

BRK WotLK Gorilla Movie - Post the VID with the comments

http://www.bigredkitty.net/page/8/


and I do hope exotics gain an advatage to some relatively useful degree or goin to 51 won't be worth much more than a Diff pet graphic...


p.s. Blizz needs to have PET equip item drops! Like say SOCKS for Devilsaurs and Corehounds

[Exotic PET SOCKS & MUZZLE]
:on equip Reduces thunderous foot stomps and screeching noises by 50% with a bonus of stopping other players QQ'n about the distracting noises the new hunter pets make LAWL

The firing animation you see that occurs while you are channeling Volley is part of the new animation for the ability. You shoot 6 times, once for each volley of ammo that fires.

As far as #2, they are still looking into things and will most likely be making adjustment several weeks into WoTLK getting everything the way they want it to be.

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Q u o t e:
1) BM of all hunters shouldn't be forced to only be able to pick from the relatively small pool of exotic pets.

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This has been my concern. I would like to see the +10% pet damage talked about apply to all pets if you take the 51 point BM talent.

GC, while you are here, could you comment on if Volley affecting ranged weapon durability by ridiculous amount is a bug or intended functionality? It was not this way before 3.0 patch.

Its been stated before that the biggest advantage to taking the 51 point BM talent is the extra 4 talent points (man I wish it was still 5....). At level 80, when you have a full build that can include GFTT, with a devilsaur fully talented, it seems likely they will out DPS any other pet. Those extra 4 talents points will allow you to completely maximize your DPS and versatility in a way that a non 51-point BM hunter couldn't (sorry, that was a weird sentence).

I think its absolutely impossible at level 70 to determine true pet balance. You don't have access to all your talent points, and you don't have access to all your pet's talent points. I think that will be the true determining factor.

Guess we'll see.

Angrydad

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Q u o t e:
1) That is by design. Even if it wasn't by design, the current implementation is a good idea because Volley does so much damage now.

2) We made a big pass on pet dps for 3.0.3 so I'm not sure if your tests are reflecting those changes or not. Cats are still a good dps pet, but they shouldn't flat out beat every exotic. The exotic balance is obviously tricky. BM of all hunters shouldn't be forced to only be able to pick from the relatively small pool of exotic pets.

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GC, I never saw a reply on the thread about volley giving excessive durability hits to ranged weapons. Since volley was brought up in this thread, can you possibly address that and whether it's by design or a bug?

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Q u o t e:
1) That is by design. Even if it wasn't by design, the current implementation is a good idea because Volley does so much damage now.

2) We made a big pass on pet dps for 3.0.3 so I'm not sure if your tests are reflecting those changes or not. Cats are still a good dps pet, but they shouldn't flat out beat every exotic. The exotic balance is obviously tricky. BM of all hunters shouldn't be forced to only be able to pick from the relatively small pool of exotic pets.

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While I have no problem with Volley working that way, is it really supposed to eat the bow's durability as fast as it does? (epic lawl, ninja'd twice)

As for 2, it would be better from a Hunter point of view to just remove any DPS advantage from exotics and add a flat damage increase to the talent itself. The lvl 80 BM build of choice seems to heavily favor a 50/21/0 build just to capitalize on BW/Readiness because the 51 point talent isn't even close to Readiness as far as damage goes.

That doesn't really settle well with me.

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Q u o t e:
Its been stated before that the biggest advantage to taking the 51 point BM talent is the extra 4 talent points (man I wish it was still 5....). At level 80, when you have a full build that can include GFTT, with a devilsaur fully talented, it seems likely they will out DPS any other pet. Those extra 4 talents points will allow you to completely maximize your DPS and versatility in a way that a non 51-point BM hunter couldn't (sorry, that was a weird sentence).

I think its absolutely impossible at level 70 to determine true pet balance. You don't have access to all your talent points, and you don't have access to all your pet's talent points. I think that will be the true determining factor.

Guess we'll see.

Angrydad

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Actually, it's quite obvious if you use a pet talent calculator that the 4 extra point at 80 makes no improvement in pet's damage. It helps with survivability however.

Here's a cat build at 80 without 51 point talent: http://www.wowhead.com/?petcalc=0md00fc00hoo

You can not improve the damage of your pet by adding 4 more talent points anywhere!

So, unless they make the talent itself improve ALL pets' damage by 10%, you will be forced to pick a few selected exotic pets if you take the 51 point talent. This will still be less dps compared to spending that point in readiness.

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Q u o t e:


GC, I never saw a reply on the thread about volley giving excessive durability hits to ranged weapons. Since volley was brought up in this thread, can you possibly address that and whether it's by design or a bug?

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This. My crossbow broke halfway through the raid in Hyjal, and I only died once. Something isn't right with volley. The damage is amazing, great work there, but it comes with some nasty side effects.

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Q u o t e:


This has been my concern. I would like to see the +10% pet damage talked about apply to all pets if you take the 51 point BM talent.

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I'd like to see it split. Say, a flat 5% to all pets, then a further 5% to exotics.

It's not an issue that really bothers me either way though.

And not to sound like i'm too greedy, but exotics really are taking up more stable slots than i expected. I effectively need 2 sets of pets now if i ever plan to switch between specs. It doesn't help that my two pre-3.x pets both ended up being Tenacity pets. I don't wanna abandon my boar :(

Simpler solution of course is to not level my hunter though ^_^

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Q u o t e:
Its been stated before that the biggest advantage to taking the 51 point BM talent is the extra 4 talent points (man I wish it was still 5....). At level 80, when you have a full build that can include GFTT, with a devilsaur fully talented, it seems likely they will out DPS any other pet. Those extra 4 talents points will allow you to completely maximize your DPS and versatility in a way that a non 51-point BM hunter couldn't (sorry, that was a weird sentence).

I think its absolutely impossible at level 70 to determine true pet balance. You don't have access to all your talent points, and you don't have access to all your pet's talent points. I think that will be the true determining factor.

Guess we'll see.

Angrydad

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Even at level 70, you can take every DPS talent for a Ferocity pet without the extra points from Beast Mastery (except for Call of the Wild, but at least one TSA / UR is commonplace. By 72 it is available without BM.):
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?petcalc=0mbz0cc00ho
The bonus points aspect of Beast Mastery is in no way a DPS buff, except perhaps in a secondary way through increased survivability.

As for the OP's second 'bug', the only reason non-exotics are outperforming the devilsaur is because at level 70, talenting into Beast Mastery means Go for the Throat is unavailable.

Cat + GftT > Devilsaur - GftT

That simple.

Please do not get me wrong, i love volley, the damage is finally useful in raids, and in NO way effects PVP balance. .. it's not perfect however, I have a Wish-list to polish it though.

1. Weapon Durability .. This shot TRASHES our weapons, often having to make repairs to the weapon half way through a raid, and slowing it down.. You don't think there is "bonus damage" to mage, warlock, or druid staves (i could possibly be wrong though)

2. Would love to see it work like starfall, meaning we can fire it and move around .. i'd love lay a frost trap, fire this, and then fight my enemy in that trap while the arrows fell .. you know.. like druids do now... just without all the instant hots and heals

As far as the 51pt BM talent .. i'm to the point where i refuse to use it, it gives some durability to the pet, but nearly no damage, any tests i've done with my pets have only noticed minor damage differences.

Make another level of the pet talent tree that only 51pt BM's can access .. have a;
a. major dps boost (even at a durability loss)
b. major tanking talent
c. Healing ability (to his master)
d. PVP ability like Fear. or a faster refresh on intimidate.
e. Enrage, when pet is killed master enrages doing stupid damage for X time

I don't think that this 51pt talent should be reserved to special pets, kind of defeats the purpose of having different pets. let any bonus damage be added by the players talent, or by a different level of talent tree that only a 51pt spec can access..

This is not rocket surgery... I could fix the hunter class in an afternoon at the office either the easy way (a keg), or the hard way (a bat)

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Q u o t e:
...any tests i've done with my pets have only noticed minor damage differences...

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Unless that testing was performed at level 80, it's not valid evidence for exotic / non-exotic comparison. See my post above.

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Q u o t e:


Unless that testing was performed at level 80, it's not valid evidence for exotic / non-exotic comparison. See my post above.

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True, i will add that caveat, all testing was done at level 70, and i was not able to notice much of a difference between pets @ level 70..

Can we get go for the throat up to a tier 1 talent .. maybe put it in BM tree where it belongs

While I do hate it when people see a blue they jump on them with all sorts of questions derailing the thread, I think the durability Bug with volley is relevant to this discussion. Not being able to volley/auto shot is fine( I didn't even know we could do that in the first place >.>) . But breaking my bow before the second boss in hyjal is getting a little crazy.

Will we see this fixed or is it be design that each volley hit counts against durability like normal shots?