Do you have a Problem with Holy Righteous Justice of Vengeance or something?

I hear DeathGrip is fun ;)

/beg

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Q u o t e:
We're not sure if we're going to do this or not. If we do it (make an 11-point Prot talent that is attractive to Ret) it would be for these reasons:

-- It would be cooler if the talent was something fun for Prot and not something they "need" to tank.
-- In our experience, Ret paladins who PvP often go down into Prot anyway to get Imp Hammer of Justice.
-- I suggested we might offer Ret more PvP utility since we are stripping some of the burst damage, so PvE Retadins might not want this ability anyway.
-- We wouldn't want this talent to be something Prot would never get and Ret would always get. If anything we need to err on the side of something Prot definitely wants.

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Holy crap, I got a blue. O_o

Well, that pretty much takes care of my concern. Now I can sit back and see what you guys come up with. A "fun" talent sort of like how I see Warbringer (NOTE: I AM NOT ASKING FOR WARBRINGER) would actually be pretty awesome, so I'm waiting to see how this pans out.

I'd also comment on how you seem to be working late on a weekend, but I am also working on the weekend, so...

Thanks for taking the time on a Saturday GC.

We appreciate it.

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Q u o t e:


paladins don't beg

*glances at the paladin forum*

*hangs his head in shame*

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Of course Paladins Beg! Humility and all that.

Pride is how we got Arthas and etc :o

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Q u o t e:
Personally

I'd like to be able to fight back against mages in PvP

I can beat them if I outgear them by a lot... but it's not pretty.


Healers give me trouble too but it's not so bad since it's a stand still rather than the swift defeat mages like to hand me

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Now that I think about it, it's probably almost impossible for them to make a chargeish or deathgrip type talent here at 11 points.

Why?

Think about it. AW was nerfed because it worked too well with bubble. Do you think they'd particularly appreciate it if an invincible Paladin could drag the frantically fleeing Hunter back to him - or worse, bubble up, charge in, and proceed to clobber someone while invincible? Many Paladins have claimed that the bubble counter is "run away" if you aren't a priest, since we have no snare and no charge.

It'd need to not work while bubbled if we got it.

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Q u o t e:
We're not sure if we're going to do this or not. If we do it (make an 11-point Prot talent that is attractive to Ret) it would be for these reasons:

-- It would be cooler if the talent was something fun for Prot and not something they "need" to tank.
-- In our experience, Ret paladins who PvP often go down into Prot anyway to get Imp Hammer of Justice.
-- I suggested we might offer Ret more PvP utility since we are stripping some of the burst damage, so PvE Retadins might not want this ability anyway.
-- We wouldn't want this talent to be something Prot would never get and Ret would always get. If anything we need to err on the side of something Prot definitely wants.

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Do both specs a favor and make it an ability similar to the Death Knight's Death Grip ability. Functions as a spell interrupt, single target taunt, and pvp melee ability rolled into one.

You have 2 tanks that charge, keep the symmetry and have 2 tanks that "yank".

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Q u o t e:
We're not sure if we're going to do this or not. If we do it (make an 11-point Prot talent that is attractive to Ret) it would be for these reasons:

-- It would be cooler if the talent was something fun for Prot and not something they "need" to tank.
-- In our experience, Ret paladins who PvP often go down into Prot anyway to get Imp Hammer of Justice.
-- I suggested we might offer Ret more PvP utility since we are stripping some of the burst damage, so PvE Retadins might not want this ability anyway.
-- We wouldn't want this talent to be something Prot would never get and Ret would always get. If anything we need to err on the side of something Prot definitely wants.

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Consider making Reckoning 1 point and putting it there. Currently, protection paladins aren't taking the talent because as your gear scales you proc reckoning less. That just leaves weird reckoning/ret hybrids with its current form.

11-point reckoning answers each of your bullet points. 1. It's fun for prot, but it isn't needed to tank because it isn't a huge amount of threat and as stated earlier, as your avoidance rises your proc chance goes down. 2. Ret is often deep enough in the tree for hammer of justice, this is one point on the way. 3. It offers ret that tiny bit of a pvp boost in the eye of burst but remains physical and limited in use because of ret's slow two hander. Lower the charges or duration if it's still too bursty. 4. Prot will actually take the talent now that it's higher in the tree and not a point drain.

My only concern of this is even at a nerfed state ret may feel required to take this talent for pvp always. I don't know if this is an issue to you guys because you seem to be okay with most rets going deep prot for imp hoj anyway.

For your consideration.

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Q u o t e:


Holy crap, I got a blue. O_o

Well, that pretty much takes care of my concern. Now I can sit back and see what you guys come up with. A "fun" talent sort of like how I see Warbringer (NOTE: I AM NOT ASKING FOR WARBRINGER) would actually be pretty awesome, so I'm waiting to see how this pans out.

I'd also comment on how you seem to be working late on a weekend, but I am also working on the weekend, so...

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yes fun but usefull, i was for my idea of a death grip / silence. Imagine a paladin pulling a "GET OVER HERE" and interupts, and the "get over here" part would be just for w/e

Ret would want it cause they would finnaly gain something to close the gap, serves no real use in Pve for ret, serves a huge amount for PVP in ret and provided a fun ability for tanking and a needed interupt.

Would rather have the basic Tanking tools provided by base skills rather than talents but what can you do? There are some things both specs need to succeed, and since evidently doing damage isn't one of them its the simplest solution to address their concerns.

Is it a cop out? Yes but no more than gutting the base attack abilities of the whole class to lower one specs damage, and at least its an ability that warriors DONT have and gives prot AND ret something useful for pvp.

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Q u o t e:


I've had 3/5 for quite some time now

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and i question you with why, iv seen alot of people with this spec so they can pick up improve judgment, not get all of ardent defender and such.

Just reckoning is just a worthless talent unless your soloing, and has side effects if it procs and you happened to get parried .