Arcane Stability is a 5 point first tier arcane talent that gives you 20% pushback resist per point, with 5 points it make (only) your Arcane Missles and Arcane Blast spell pushback immune.

The problem is, with the new pushback system, this talent isn't really as useful as it used to be, but at the same time, with the new arcane blast, this talent is necessary for arcane in pve.

The new Arcane Blast gives you just enough time, if chain casting AB, to get in another AB with the debuff stacking, if you get your AB pushed back even one tick, it's going to mess up your rotation.

My solution would to be either, make it a 3 point talent, or, make it apply to all spells.

It's a nice talent but a 5 second channeled spell (Arcane Missles) that opens up your main spell school to pummel, kick, counterspell, spell lock, deadly throw, HoJ, etc. doesn't shouldn't really require a 5 point talent to make itself viable in PvP, and Arcane Blast/The Arcane PvE build, shouldn't require a 5 point talent just to stop raid damage from screwing up your rotation.

edit: Another victim of talent bloating is Arcane Fortitude; another nice concept, but is 3 talent points really worth a couple hundred armor?

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Q u o t e:
edit: Another victim of talent bloating is Arcane Fortitude; another nice concept, but is 3 talent points really worth a couple hundred armor?

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No, its not worth even 1 talent point. However, if it were HEALTH instead of armor (1:1) it would be worth it.

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Q u o t e:


No, its not worth even 1 talent point. However, if it were HEALTH instead of armor (1:1) it would be worth it.

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I think it was worth one point when spec'ing 17/0/44 pre-3.0 in its 1 point 100% int->armor state. But that was mostly to counter pre-3.0's version of armor pen, I think really it should just be buffed into 150% int->armor or a 2 point 100%/200% int->armor.

Well there have been a fair number of threads and posts on Beta asking about arcane tree bloat and most of them didn't really get responses.. As far as i can tell, here are some of the problems:

Arcane Fortitude... But we already know about that
No cross tree synergy between, say, deepish fire and arcane. The 1st tier of talents are essentially useless to any other spec, but focus magic and clearcasting are extremely useful. So perhaps one of the more useful talents can be moved down.
Having to spend 10 points in mind mastery and arcane mind, when these two could easily be combined or at least require less points
Improved blink... wtf? the very least it could do is reduce cooldown
I'm sure there are more but i have to go research

the intrinsic problem with Arcane Fortitude is that no amount of cloth armor is going to stop someone with executioner, and as such, AF should move away from armor, because honestly, damage reduc from armor for mages is situational at best and if the warrior hits you you're already dead anyway.

I liked the suggestion about int: hP 1:1 that would roughly add 1.4k+ to our health pools at 80. Warlocks already can reach 15k at 70 so i don't think it's op or out of line.. so...

100% pushback protection is very good. Just because its 5 points and you need to get it doesn't mean it is bloated. Shadowpriests would jump at the chance to get 100% pushback protection on mindflay and 1 other spell.

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Q u o t e:
100% pushback protection is very good. Just because its 5 points and you need to get it doesn't mean it is bloated. Shadowpriests would jump at the chance to get 100% pushback protection on mindflay and 1 other spell.

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I'm actually very confused about the new system and Mindflay. With a 70% reduction, and the new system pushing the cast timer back by 1 second/0.5 seconds/0 (is that right?) How does the 70% work exactly? Does it come out to be 0.3/0.15/0 and I just don't lose a tick from Mindflay or what?

Hopefully I won't have to make a new thread with a better title to get this answered.

Along the lines of Arcane Blast's debuff timer, the recent latency instability of the realms has led to the relative uselessness of Arcane Blast completely.
Even with the slightest lag, by the time you get a subsequent Arcane Blast cast off, the debuff timer has usually expired.
Half a second leeway is not enough for the Arcance Blast debuff. Please reconsider the length of this.
Thank you.

Blue :

Arcane stability need to be changed to a 2-3 pts talents....

-no one use AM except for MB proc now...
- Arcane Blast need only a 70% pushback...

Also Mind Mastery or Arcane Mind should be reduced to 3 pts talent for the same bufff.

I 'm wondering for Arcane what is our equivalent of imp scorch or winterchill ? do you espect arcane mage to go spec into imp scorch.... we dont have any group buff like fire and frost does.... so im wondering what as arcane we do bring to a raid ?

Also, i saw your solution about needing an arcane blast cast to buff up ABar damage on subsequent cast... keep in mind pvp... Ablast. , 2.5s is a hell to cast in pvp...

which bring me to the haste concern... stacking haste as an arcane mage is very awkward as it screw up spell rotation with Abar ... have you thought about it :P ?

Oh an yes , if i remember one of the goal was also to reduce the amount of random in the game... the mage class is filled now with random (MB, Hot Streak, BFreeze, FoF) more than we ever wanted it... and just by luck it can really affect the outcome of a pvp skirmish and a difference in dps ....

you never thought about adding "determinist" proc based ability like art of war for ret as every jugement of command is 100% garanteed crit on an incapacited target which mean you can control in a certain extand the proc of Art of War and the other proc are freebie....

as it stand for Arcane Mage... MB can proc 3 times in row or i can be a whole mana pool without any proc.... you see my point ?

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Q u o t e:
Blue :

which bring me to the haste concern... stacking haste as an arcane mage is very awkward as it screw up spell rotation with Abar ... have you thought about it :P ?

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or you can get 27%(less with raid buffs) haste from gear Bloodlust Icy Viens(way easy with IV) and be able to AB ABr with the debuff up(!)

just so happens that same amount of haste *should* let you AB AM on mb procs without lossing the stack

all of this of course assumes your in a raid with 23 druids and you get every single innervate

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Q u o t e:
Blue :

Arcane stability need to be changed to a 2-3 pts talents....

-no one use AM except for MB proc now...
- Arcane Blast need only a 70% pushback...

Also Mind Mastery or Arcane Mind should be reduced to 3 pts talent for the same bufff.

I 'm wondering for Arcane what is our equivalent of imp scorch or winterchill ? do you espect arcane mage to go spec into imp scorch.... we dont have any group buff like fire and frost does.... so im wondering what as arcane we do bring to a raid ?

Also, i saw your solution about needing an arcane blast cast to buff up ABar damage on subsequent cast... keep in mind pvp... Ablast. , 2.5s is a hell to cast in pvp...

which bring me to the haste concern... stacking haste as an arcane mage is very awkward as it screw up spell rotation with Abar ... have you thought about it :P ?

Oh an yes , if i remember one of the goal was also to reduce the amount of random in the game... the mage class is filled now with random (MB, Hot Streak, BFreeze, FoF) more than we ever wanted it... and just by luck it can really affect the outcome of a pvp skirmish and a difference in dps ....

you never thought about adding "determinist" proc based ability like art of war for ret as every jugement of command is 100% garanteed crit on an incapacited target which mean you can control in a certain extand the proc of Art of War and the other proc are freebie....

as it stand for Arcane Mage... MB can proc 3 times in row or i can be a whole mana pool without any proc.... you see my point ?

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No, due to the shortness of the arcane blast debuff, the 100% pushback resist for arcane blast is needed.

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Q u o t e:

all of this of course assumes your in a raid with 23 druids and you get every single innervate

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lol

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Q u o t e:
No, due to the shortness of the arcane blast debuff, the 100% pushback resist for arcane blast is needed.

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maybe there is a problem there...

-reduce Ablast to 2s cast ?
-increase debuff to 4s ?

the problem with the debuff honestly is that it sucks

To little gain for to much cost.

I'm sure everyone wants back the days of blastingx2-3 AM scorch letting that debuff come and go squeezing extra efficiency out of it and mashing Kaels face in the MSD and TLC

3 seconds its spam(with 5/5) or go home