GhostCrawler:

With the release of WotlK close at hand we know Blizzard is working tirelessly in their respective departments to address the more serious of concerns still remaining before launch. There are countless minor details which is why the company has teams of people working on them. We appreciate your time away from that to address our concerns as a community which not only financially makes this WoW market possible, but has a lot of personal time invested in their individual characters.
One of the struggles in a game that has two distinct foci is balancing them within the same game. Some of the changes made for PvE effect the PvP viability of certain classes and abilities and vice versa. This is perhaps personally my greatest concern, and I would imagine the largest consideration for the developers when they are instituting changes.


If I may ask a few questions;

1. With the reworking of “tanking” stats the rogue ability to dodge as a primary form of melee damage reduction has been significantly reduced to levels which impair their survivability in PvP, it is feared.

***What is Blizzard’s position, and possible compensation for the reduction in the rogues ability to dodge?




2. With the removal of the snare negating effect on shadowstep, there are concerns about the mobility of rogues in a PvP environment where utility is just as important as damage. At the very least many players feel obligated to try and acquire the improved sprint talent lest waste cooldowns normally reserved for other aspects of combat, e.g. Cloak of shadows to break frost nova.

***With the emphasis and ability of many classes to snare, hamstring, slow, and chill with little to no cooldown increasing, how do the developers plan to compensate in the mobility of melee classes, especially when our mobility is specifically being reduced and the prevalence of snares is increasing?




3. We understand that play style of a class may change, and change is scary for us all. Hemorrhage has been a main attack for almost four year and we understand it is to be considered a debuff attack in the upcoming expansion. It has been the general consensus that the debuff is rather insignificant to be a dedicated supportive roll in the realm of PvP combat.

***What do the developers think about the debuff and damage provided by the hemorrhage ability with respect to PvP combat? Are there any plans to either increase the debuff to resemble those available to other classes or uphold and restore the ability’s role as a primary attack within the configuration of certain builds?




4. Finally, as will all new programs and games there are bugs to work out, and the rogue community is fairly adamant about issues with the proper function of stealth and vanish.

***Are the programmers and developers aware of any particular bugs or problems with the workings of stealth and vanish and is so are steps being taken, as I imagine they would be, to rectify the situation?





There are many other questions, I am sure. If we could in cordial fashion respectfully await the possibility of your response on these particular issues, and reserve the asking of more humble inquires in the future, know that we will be much obliged for your response. Thank you in advance for your effort in keeping the community up to speed in the progress and work of the makers of a game we all love to play and look forward to playing for quite some time to come.


Thank you,
Vindicare

reserved

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Q u o t e:

1. With the reworking of “tanking” stats the rogue ability to dodge as a primary form of melee damage reduction has been significantly reduced to levels which impair their survivability in PvP, it is feared.

***What is Blizzard’s position, and possible compensation for the reduction in the rogues ability to dodge?

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The same as our compensation when they lowered our dodge percentage....NADA. Hunter survival requires us to NOT be in melee and now Blizzard has systematically destroyed us and made it easier to hit us when we are in melee range by doing this to us. You at least got Dismantle, the most OP skill in game att he moment.

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Q u o t e:

2. With the removal of the snare negating effect on shadowstep, there are concerns about the mobility of rogues in a PvP environment where utility is just as important as damage. At the very least many players feel obligated to try and acquire the improved sprint talent lest waste cooldowns normally reserved for other aspects of combat, e.g. Cloak of shadows to break frost nova.

***With the emphasis and ability of many classes to snare, hamstring, slow, and chill with little to no cooldown increasing, how do the developers plan to compensate in the mobility of melee classes, especially when our mobility is specifically being reduced and the prevalence of snares is increasing?

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Wait...seriously? You want compensation when you guys have better working and longer lasting abilities to keep Hunters in melee range than we have to get out of it? Really? Hell you guys can Blind, sprint away, vanish and hide...what can we do? Oh yeah, stand there and take it up the butt.

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Q u o t e:

3. We understand that play style of a class may change, and change is scary for us all. Hemorrhage has been a main attack for almost four year and we understand it is to be considered a debuff attack in the upcoming expansion. It has been the general consensus that the debuff is rather insignificant to be a dedicated supportive roll in the realm of PvP combat.

***What do the developers think about the debuff and damage provided by the hemorrhage ability with respect to PvP combat? Are there any plans to either increase the debuff to resemble those available to other classes or uphold and restore the ability’s role as a primary attack within the configuration of certain builds?

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The last thing you guys need is a buff in PvP...PERIOD.

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Q u o t e:

4. Finally, as will all new programs and games there are bugs to work out, and the rogue community is fairly adamant about issues with the proper function of stealth and vanish.

***Are the programmers and developers aware of any particular bugs or problems with the workings of stealth and vanish and is so are steps being taken, as I imagine they would be, to rectify the situation?

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These may have real issues. Nothing to say here.

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Q u o t e:

There are many other questions, I am sure. If we could in cordial fashion respectfully await the possibility of your response on these particular issues, and reserve the asking of more humble inquires in the future, know that we will be much obliged for your response. Thank you in advance for your effort in keeping the community up to speed in the progress and work of the makers of a game we all love to play and look forward to playing for quite some time to come.


Thank you,
Vindicare

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Rogues are MORE than fine, L2P.

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Q u o t e:


The same as our compensation when they lowered our dodge percentage....NADA. .

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Aspect of the Dragonhawk is something.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11228504361&sid=2000

There is a small icon next to my name which indicates that I shoot projectiles as my primary attack.

Vindicare<---not rogue


These are concerns which were raised, and consistently raised by multiple rogue players. Even as an opponent of a rogue I am interested to hear what Blizzard has to say about these concerns directly.

The reason you "take it up the butt" is because hunters are exceedingly hard to play. However, with the plethora of abilities at their disposal I think we get exponentially better with skill as opposed to face rolling warriors and now pallies.

Interestingly enough, you didn't actually address any of the issues besides saying, "I can't win so nothings wrong with rogues." Hardly a valid argument even if there is nothing wrong with rogues.


Still in reply to you:


1. About the dodge nerf: Rogues don't wear mail, and hunters kite as their main dmg reduction.



2. About the mobility of rogues vs hunters:

wing clip, scatter shot, concussive shot, frost trap, auto shots that daze, charging pets

You're not op by any means, but the ways that rogues get out of these is what exactly if they do not have imp sprint? They...slow you? That doesn't exactly get them out of anything though. My cooldowns are a lot shorter than theirs and I have more of them, I've been killed by rogues, but I've killed them too, even before the SS nerf.


3. About the hemorrhage ability:

This is asking for a clarification of the abilities role and possible changes to reflect that role, not begging for a buff.


I understand that we all want our class to get love, but the frustrations of our class against another is not grounds to fail to address their concerns in an intelligent fashion regardless of whether we agree with them or not.


Thank you,


Vindicare

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Q u o t e:


The same as our compensation when they lowered our dodge percentage....NADA. Hunter survival requires us to NOT be in melee and now Blizzard has systematically destroyed us and made it easier to hit us when we are in melee range by doing this to us. You at least got Dismantle, the most OP skill in game att he moment.



Wait...seriously? You want compensation when you guys have better working and longer lasting abilities to keep Hunters in melee range than we have to get out of it? Really? Hell you guys can Blind, sprint away, vanish and hide...what can we do? Oh yeah, stand there and take it up the butt.





The last thing you guys need is a buff in PvP...PERIOD.




These may have real issues. Nothing to say here.





Rogues are MORE than fine, L2P.

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Hunters are just a last minute throw together by blizz because they wanted guns and bows in the game but didn't know how to put them in. Hunter, imo, isn't even a real class, its been changed sooooooo many times. So what you say means nothing to me. Go away. Rogue's are bugged.

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Q u o t e:

Hunters are just a last minute throw together by blizz because they wanted guns and bows in the game but didn't know how to put them in. Hunter, imo, isn't even a real class, its been changed sooooooo many times. So what you say means nothing to me. Go away. Rogue's are bugged.

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Be nice, look at my icon, I wrote the post, and defended against a hunter. I can never go home now.


Seriously, I know everything is kind of up in the air with the release not even upon us yet, but I remember rogues before BC, then after BC, then at the end of BC. They have changed a bit too. Everyone flips out when the style of their class changes because they have to relearn how to play, that's part of the fun, but these questions are not unreasonable begging for buffs or debuffs, just simple clarifications on how the new aspects of the class are supposed to fit into PvP combat themes of mobility, buff and debuff, and avoidance vs. dmg.

/bump

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Q u o t e:
There is a small icon next to my name which indicates that I shoot projectiles as my primary attack.

Vindicare<---not rogue

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We know your main = Rogue as do the devs.

Rogues are fine, dismantle is OP. If you can't kill people in pvp the problem is the person behind the keyboard, not the class.

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Q u o t e:
There is a small icon next to my name which indicates that I shoot projectiles as my primary attack.

Vindicare<---not rogue


Vindicare

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Here's a question from a rogue to Vindicare. I don't play a hunter so I really don't know whats going on in the new patch, although i am familiar with hunters pre 3.02. Do hunters take any of the 51 point builds for PvP? A rogues best PvP build doesn't usually allow for a 51 point build. I'm not saying a rogue CAN'T PvP with them, but I don't think they're our best choices. We're almost exclusively presed into a hybrid spec, seeing how our best talents are Spred deep all over the 3 trees. I'm not complaining, by the way, just curious, and of course PVE is a different matter with our spec choices.

Aspect of the monkey and dragonhawk were both buffed to compensate for the loss of dodge.

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Q u o t e:
Aspect of the monkey and dragonhawk were both buffed to compensate for the loss of dodge.

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And yet we must sit in Aspect of the Viper for longer than Dragonhawk..

Does GC actually understand that the AGILITY to DODGE conversion RATIO was lowered? We get less dodge per point of agility post 3.0, from his post it sounds like he doesn't understand this. Was this unintended?

Rogues NEVER used dodge rating, we're talking about less dodge from agility.

Thanks for the info GC, but his Kindness must seem a least a little refreshing after the beating you've been taking lately.

Also to the OP, good thread.

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Q u o t e:
Does GC actually understand that the AGILITY to DODGE conversion RATIO was lowered? We get less dodge per point of agility post 3.0, from his post it sounds like he doesn't understand this. Was this unintended?

Rogues NEVER used dodge rating, we're talking about less dodge from agility.

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Seems to be effective to hunters as well, i believe it might be tackling the issue of RNG dominating arena, Too many dodges against rogues and hunters very well means a loss or a win in some cases.

Whether this is their intentions, i'm sure they would buff your survivability in PVP settings if they felt it was necessary. Normally blizzard prefers to see how things play out before taking such an action however.

So , you telling that vanish is okay?


That isnt. And i know because it never was this away.

Keep crying Rogues. One can only hope the nerf bat hits you guys as hard as the retardins.