Dear GC or any Blue,

I've decided to give this board a chance.

After the spell power change, what could of been Priest healing gear could end up to a Mage/Warlock. I'm fine with that they wear cloth armor and so do I. My concern is Druids/Pallys/Shamans rolling on cloth healing gear ontop of the Warlocks/Mages. You've made the game so alot of classes share stats and Priests have the smallest loot table of healer due to the limit of cloth armor.

I love how Armored to the Teeth helps warriors choice plate over leather armor. I wondering if you'd make similar talents for Druids/Shamans/Pallys so they're not wearing cloth armor instead of Leather/Mail/Plate.

Thanks,
AFox

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Q u o t e:
Dear GC or any Blue,

I've decided to give this board a chance.

After the spell power change, what could of been Priest healing gear could end up to a Mage/Warlock. I'm fine with that they wear cloth armor and so do I. My concern is Druids/Pallys/Shamans rolling on cloth healing gear ontop of the Warlocks/Mages. You've made the game so alot of classes share stats and Priests have the smallest loot table of healer due to the limit of cloth armor.

I love how Armored to the Teeth helps warriors choice plate over leather armor. I wondering if you'd make similar talents for Druids/Shamans/Pallys so they're not wearing cloth armor instead of Leather/Mail/Plate.

Thanks,
AFox

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want something worse to worry about? spell hit.

now you'll either have to roll on spell hit gear and have gear that wastes item value on a useless stat on the gear.... or it'll only be on some gear, so caster dps will be mad when you roll on it, but then they'll take your gear cause "its better than what I have"

and shaman or paladins that roll on your loot are retarded.

and why do paladin healers still get their very own itemized gear but shaman/druids/priests have to share with their dps counterparts?

I'm a shaman and I don't really like the idea of wasting a bunch of item value on crit I really don't need just so you can design one piece of gear that I can use in two specs. some crit is fine, but stacking crit and hit like an elemental shaman would do as a healer is just stupid and makes me feel like I'm gonna be playing a second class role in WotLK.


edit for my solution:

give the healing specs a talent to convert hit to something useful (spell hit for crit would be dumb, but 2 points of hit for 1 mp5 would be fine), or give the dps specs more hit in their talents (you took more away than you gave with wotlk so I don't see this happening).

Isn't cloth highly itemized with spirit now? To my knowledge shamans and paladins will still not benefit from that.

Druids will, though.

Loot distribution is a social issue, not one of itemization.

Always has been, always will be. If you're that worried about it, don't pug lower-level content and don't raid with guilds that use an unfair method to divide loot.

From what I've seen, cloth caster gear is much more highly provided than leather caster gear. This makes sense, since all the clothies are casters and only druids (not feral) are capable of using caster leather gear. They specifically made the druids and priests share the same stats (spirit, haste) and have no real advantage, other than extra armor, for wearing leather gear. This lets them itemize more caster cloth into the loot tables so that equipment is shared by more classes.

The same thing happens with shamans and paladins. They don't want crappy spirit gear, so instead they get stuff with mp5 on it. Since crit is big for both shammies and paladins, it is highly itemized on both and the majority of the caster gear will be mail, not plate. Plate and leather casting gear will be much more rare than mail and cloth casting gear, if you look through any of the Naxx loot tables you'll be able to tell that.

Leather and plate caster gear will mostly be reserved on the tier tokens, which everyone can roll on anyway.

Speaking as a Shaman, I'm never going to roll on pretty much any cloth or leather - spirit is a wasted stat for me, and nearly all cloth and leather has spirit. I'm (obviously) not going to roll on Paladin plate, either. As an Elemental shaman, I'm not even likely to go after that piece of mail that has +int, +sta, spellpower, and MP5 - that's clearly a healing piece, and between Elemental Focus, Water Shield, Mana Spring, and Thunderstorm (not to mention Replenishment, Judgement of Wisdom, Blessing of Wisdom, etc, etc, etc in a raid situation) I'm not hurting for mana.

To make a long story short: despite the shift to spellpower, it's still fairly easy to tell what pieces are meant for what specs. A good player will avoid rolling on things that aren't built for his spec - it will make him a better character in the long run and make his group a stronger group in the short run.

A bad player isn't someone you should be playing with anyway, any warlock that decided to roll on a cloth piece with (for instance) int, spi, spellpower, and MP5 is a warlock that I wouldn't be inviting to my runs again.

<-- Shaman, elemental and resto, have killed KJ quite a few times.

Anyway - Cloth gear is often quite attractive because itemization on it is often better than on mail gear. Things are MUCH MUCH better in BC than previously, and hopefully will be even better in WotLK.

Now... a shaman talent that gave X% of your AC as spell power... that could be interesting - could definitely help cover up the poor mail armor itemization - but it's really not solving the underlying problem (poor itemization) . That said, there is plenty of room for useful talents in the elemental tree, it's pretty lackluster right now and bloated with PVP crud. The unfortunate thing about an AC->Spell Power talent would be that it would favor PVP gear.

Ever think about putting mutually exclusive talents into the talent trees? Like have dual 51 point talents so that you can actually give elemental shamans a useful PVE 51 point talent - but if you spec into it you can't spec into Blunderstorm?

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Q u o t e:
There are still pieces which are more appropriate for one class or spec than another. Some of the changes we made, such as spell power, will blur the lines slightly more. Our goal with that was more to help say an undergeared paladin get healing gear or an undergeared warlock be able to benefit from the "healing" cloth rather than just sharding it.

I've played a priest enough (I've played every class) to know that it can be frustrating when a paladin wants to roll on a piece of cloth, but most of the time the raid leaders I have run with tend to let the cloth-wearers get first dibs. I agree that there is a big social aspect to loot distribution. To some extent, that is by design.

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Solution is to put SPIRIT on the gear and not MP5 or a mix favoring spirit like the itemization people love to do for who knows why. Sure, Druids will still love it, but shaman and pallies won't.

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Q u o t e:

Solution is to put SPIRIT on the gear and not MP5 or a mix favoring spirit like the itemization people love to do for who knows why. Sure, Druids will still love it, but shaman and pallies won't.

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Remember way back when priests were arguing over whether mp5 or spirit was more valuable? It's like that again, except now there are discipline priests, who don't get the talent that converts spirit into +heal.

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Q u o t e:
Remember way back when priests were arguing over whether mp5 or spirit was more valuable? It's like that again, except now there are discipline priests, who don't get the talent that converts spirit into +heal.

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They still have meditation though. Any amount of spirit makes it undesirable for pallies and shaman though, even if it's a little bit.

Sorry my priest friends, I love you guys, but over half my gear as a Resto Druid is cloth. I really do try and hold out on stuff if there is a good leather alternative but more often than not, I find the cloth one just being absurdedly better. I deserve a chance to get it too; just because I can wear leather doesn't mean there are all good leather pieces out there. To be honest, a lot of the leather I've seen sucks compared to some of the cloth on the same boss (there is also a lot of the opposite too, a lot of leather being better which I try and take advantage of as much as possible).

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Q u o t e:

I've played a priest enough (I've played every class) to know that it can be frustrating when a paladin wants to roll on a piece of cloth.

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Now I understand why you hate us.












:P

less concerened about pallies/druids/shams taking cloth gear as i am the offset gear like trinkets/rings/necks. These have (in my experience) been the rarest drops and now they are open to EVERY caster. Memento is now one of the best possible caster dps trinkets, and skull isn't a bad healing trinket (aside from the hit). How much fun is it going to be competing for the super rare trinket/wep drops with all the clothies, healers, and caster speced hybrids. Thats 14 possible specs going after similar types of gear. (3 priest, 3 lock, 3 mage, 2 druid, 2 shaman, 1 paladin)

ps. i understand that atm demo locks and arc mages probably won't be the end game raid specs. But if one is in a raid, they are going to be interested in trinkets etc.

I've said for ages that they should bring back 8/8 or 9/9 Class ONLY sets dropping off bosses like pre-bc or go off a class only token system (as opposed to 3 classes per token). Sure, some loot is going to go to waste when all classes have their gear but with offspec loot, people are going to have got their gear and moved on from that instance before everyone gets their offspec pieces.