Have the developers stated which classes go where in the DPS hierarchy? I ask because many players seem to be referencing designed damage potential as if there's a roster posted somewhere.

blue links please

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Q u o t e:
Have the developers stated which classes go where in the DPS hierarchy? I ask because many players seem to be referencing designed damage potential as if there's a roster posted somewhere.

blue links please

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You won't get it. They don't want to pigeon whole themselves into something that people can easily throw back in their faces. Here is as close as you will get:

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12065200684&pageNo=1&sid=1#9

Rogues
Mages
Hunters Warlocks
<Everyone else>

I was under the impression that rogues are #1 single target, mages are #1 aoe damage...

as for an accurate pyramid, it's hard to say.

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Q u o t e:
Rogues
Mages
Hunters
Warlocks
<Everyone else>
Tank
Elemental Shaman

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fixed

They won't say because there is a skill factor.

For example.

Nub player as a pure DPS isn't topping DPS but his friend who is a skilled player hybrid is. Nub player screams nerf.

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Q u o t e:


fixed

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Haha, sadly true, but I believe he wa asking just classes and how the devs would set it up, thats how i responded :P

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Q u o t e:
Yup.

We have our target numbers and I suspect given enough time and a large enough data set, the community is going to work out what kind of dps really good classes in various configurations of gear can do.

Unfortunately class balance is a very touchy subject and players can get really upset about real or perceived slights. It doesn't benefit us a whole lot to publish this "pyramid" but it could very well cause a lot of angst especially among less skilled or uninformed players when they can't hit those numbers. They will then blame us for making their class underpowered.

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Meh, ignore the QQ , although there are genuine concerns, alot is just QQ.

i dont mind losing on the dps charts. i just hate when i choose a dps spec, and my 61 pt talent really doesn't help my dps at all.


aka dispersion

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Q u o t e:
i dont mind losing on the dps charts. i just hate when i choose a dps spec, and my 61 pt talent really doesn't help my dps at all.


aka dispersion

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SP are not the only class that has a 61 point talent that has no use for PvE or vice versa. I agree with you that somebody that goes that far down into a tree should get an ability that defines their spec in both PvE and PvP.

Blizzards design philosophy is that these talents should be situational. I am fine with that I just wish it was applied evenly across all classes, and not just used to as an answer to why certain talents are not worth speccing into if you hate a certain aspect of WoW.

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Q u o t e:
Yup.

We have our target numbers and I suspect given enough time and a large enough data set, the community is going to work out what kind of dps really good classes in various configurations of gear can do.

Unfortunately class balance is a very touchy subject and players can get really upset about real or perceived slights. It doesn't benefit us a whole lot to publish this "pyramid" but it could very well cause a lot of angst especially among less skilled or uninformed players when they can't hit those numbers. They will then blame us for making their class underpowered.

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I thought you guys wanted to equalize hybrid and pure DPS? Doesn't this, by definition, mean everyone should have roughly the same potential DPS?

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Q u o t e:

I thought you guys wanted to equalize hybrid and pure DPS? Doesn't this, by definition, mean everyone should have roughly the same potential DPS?

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buy wotlk and lvl up then we will talk... tired of the run around tbh, they need to be straight up, if a class is being tuned up higher then another even 2-3% they need to say it so we know.. there are people that all they care about is being the best, no matter what.. some say.. go have fun, but tbh competeing for number 1 everytime out is the only fun i have in pve, if the warlock class is tuned to lose to a mage, then i might as well quit or reroll cause they "claimed" dps was gona be homogenized in the "pure class's".

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Q u o t e:

I thought you guys wanted to equalize hybrid and pure DPS? Doesn't this, by definition, mean everyone should have roughly the same potential DPS?

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It has been stated before that "pure" dps classes will still likely outperform hybrids. However the gap is smaller, and there is likely a chance of fight mechanics or player skill that could overcome that couple percent difference.

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Q u o t e:
Yup.

We have our target numbers and I suspect given enough time and a large enough data set, the community is going to work out what kind of dps really good classes in various configurations of gear can do.

Unfortunately class balance is a very touchy subject and players can get really upset about real or perceived slights. It doesn't benefit us a whole lot to publish this "pyramid" but it could very well cause a lot of angst especially among less skilled or uninformed players when they can't hit those numbers. They will then blame us for making their class underpowered.

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Really? Upset? Yes, we're upset about what you say is the damage pyramid, sure.

WE'RE UPSET BECAUSE WE KNOW THE DAMN PYRAMID, AND YOU STILL WON'T FIX IT.

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Q u o t e:
Yup.

We have our target numbers and I suspect given enough time and a large enough data set, the community is going to work out what kind of dps really good classes in various configurations of gear can do.

Unfortunately class balance is a very touchy subject and players can get really upset about real or perceived slights. It doesn't benefit us a whole lot to publish this "pyramid" but it could very well cause a lot of angst especially among less skilled or uninformed players when they can't hit those numbers. They will then blame us for making their class underpowered.

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While I understand your need to keep it quiet, wouldn't it be a good idea to start giving people some idea, so that they can make an informed decision on what class they want to play? For instance, there may be a Enh shaman out there who, you know, really doesn't care that much anymore about utility, and is considering a rogue to be absolute top on the meters. Giving a clear idea of the gap might help him make up his mind.

My other fear is that you're ranking classes based on the value of their buff, and that Replenishment is a "big buff" and thus going to cost the Replenishment classes the most DPS.

I can understand having two tiers closely separated, but if you introduce a third tier, with say Retribution, Survival, and Shadow, that doesn't seem right, especially when two of those classes don't have a Replenishment-free DPS option.

That's at least my sense, and to be honest I don't want to level to 80 to find out my class of choice, whatever it may be, is gimped again. I did it with Ret in TBC, and it fundamentally changed my perception of this game (hello jadedness!) There's a lot of people hoping for more parity this time around. You've stated that's a goal, but the closer we get to LK, and the more you nerf classes like Ret, the more ambiguous that becomes.

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Q u o t e:


Really? Upset? Yes, we're upset about what you say is the damage pyramid, sure.

WE'RE UPSET BECAUSE WE KNOW THE DAMN PYRAMID, AND YOU STILL WON'T FIX IT.

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You should probably clean the spit and froth from your monitor and get ready for school.

6th grade is srs bizness.

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Q u o t e:
For instance, there may be a Enh shaman out there who, you know, really doesn't care that much anymore about utility, and is considering a rogue to be absolute top on the meters.

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He should probably roll a hunter, instead.

Here are the current US results on PVE boss kills @70 - (you pick the instance -- this one is sunwell).

http://wmo.ngacn.cc/rank/classrank/5/6

While Blizzard may have it's theoretical targets, these are the actual average dps results of the TOP 50 results on each boss.

Also, some of these fights are AoE fights (Entropius & Felmyst) which makes mages and lock look better on them. Except that nobody cares about AoE damage on adds.

The probable overall DPS pyramid (@70!) is probably based on the result from a stand-up fight like Brutallus:

Brutallus DPS
Rogue 3,596
Hunter 3,445
Warrior 3,353
Mage 3,191
Druid 3,055
Paly 3,029
Shamen 2,881
Warlock 2,820
Priest 2,158

Most all of these results are from post 3.0 fights, which represents the current state of affairs pre-WotLK.

Rogue
Hunter | Warrior
Mage | Druid | Paly
Shamen | Warlock
Priest

Also bear in mind that these results come from the BEST talent spec for each class. It does NOT tell you if Enhancement is better than Elemental, Balance dps > Feral dps, or if Fire is better dps than Arcane. Separate analysis of PVE boss kills is showing up to 30% difference between best results for different dps talent trees.