I personally dont care about having AOE. I'd rather see our single target dps go up. The devs are trying to force flametounge on us again, which wouldn't be so bad if they got rid of the windfury cooldown and up its proc rate up a little bit so we get the same amount of windfury procs with WF/FT as we would with WF/WF. Seeing as i never spec'd ele i really wouldn't know how to improve them i like that they get a new spell since I'm sure spaming LB and CL would get old but why a fire spell? It gets no benefit from SS, why not something like a fire mage where they use scorch to apply a debuff that increases their fire damage but make it for lighting. that would help ele shamans better i think and make it more involved instead of just hitting 2 buttons in a fight. That was the main reason i never spec'd ele was that it was too simplistic, where as enhance i have a SS and shock rotation knowing when to pop shamanistic rage and now lava lash and my spirit wolves.

---

Q u o t e:
I personally dont care about having AOE. I'd rather see our single target dps go up. The devs are trying to force flametounge on us again, which wouldn't be so bad if they got rid of the windfury cooldown and up its proc rate up a little bit so we get the same amount of windfury procs with WF/FT as we would with WF/WF. Seeing as i never spec'd ele i really wouldn't know how to improve them i like that they get a new spell since I'm sure spaming LB and CL would get old but why a fire spell? It gets no benefit from SS, why not something like a fire mage where they use scorch to apply a debuff that increases their fire damage but make it for lighting. that would help ele shamans better i think and make it more involved instead of just hitting 2 buttons in a fight. That was the main reason i never spec'd ele was that it was too simplistic, where as enhance i have a SS and shock rotation knowing when to pop shamanistic rage and now lava lash and my spirit wolves.

---

Our single target DPS is great right now. Generally I'm #1 on the damage meter, and if not it's a very short gap. I'm usually only out-dps'd by people who outgear me.

I don't really know what you're saying about fire damage, because they've changed SS to only be consumable by the enh shaman who applies it, and there are several debuffs now for both nature and fire damage... but after lvl 75, ele shamans will have at least 4 spells in their rotation. Don't quote me on this because I'm really not sure, but I assume It'd go something like
FS -> LvB -> CL->LB then another LB if LvB isn't off CD yet. But anyways, this has nothing to do with AoE damage.

Honestly GC. I'd rather have my scaling looked at then getting AE. Don't get me wrong I'll take it if you're offering but I think there are more important things to look at in elemental.

---

Q u o t e:
If you have ever read the beta forums, you'll know that we have changed our minds on the design of Elemental and decided that the spec needs to be able to do real AE in order to fill the ranged dps role. We're still considering the best way to do that. Totems, Chain Lightning, or Thunderstrom are all candidates (possibly glyphed) but all have their problems too, which is why we haven't settled on an implementation yet.

We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

Webbed Lightning

You blast a target with lightning, dealing X nature damage to the target. The lightning spreads to other nearby targets, dealing X/2 damage to every nearby target within 10 yards. Stuns every target for 1 second. 2 second cast time. X = whatever Chain Lightning's damage was. Remove Chain Lightning.

There. It's uniquely shaman, does it's job and has a nice side effect that is unique. Dunno if X/2 is good aoe damage, but whatev.

I don't normally want to ask for buffs etc. but you do make good points. I had doubts about AOE abilities but after reading your post, I think I want at least 1 viable AoE.

Elementals need to get together about the propsed TS glyphing to make it AoE, because TS is still tied into SE&F, which seems like a way to force us to spend five points for 50% more DoT damage on FS just to get TS.

Please unlink SE&F, or make it not wreak of PvP so much. It really does feel like an after thought without the original scaling on LB it once had or the 100% more DoT dmg.

AoE as a caster enjoys it, and the proposal of TS being ours(glyphed) does not seem to equal out.

Elementals should not want the TS option to go through with SE&F in its current condition, please positively and as constructive as possible, offer other suggestions or objective reasoning as to why this is a step in the wrong direction regarding AoE mechanics.

Don't forget you will have to stand in the middle of a pack of something to do effective AoE, all our AoE involves melee range as it is right now, which seems contrary to other caster mechanics of AoE.

---

Q u o t e:

We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

I don't know what you consider 'true AE', but didn't I see "Fan of Knives goes to 10sec CD" recently? It's got a fairly high energy cost, but that's a sizable instant cast ae on every trash pack in BT (where now everything's dead by the time my fire nova goes off). I'd love to have something like that.

---

Q u o t e:
Honestly GC. I'd rather have my scaling looked at then getting AE. Don't get me wrong I'll take it if you're offering but I think there are more important things to look at in elemental.

---

^^

---

Q u o t e:
If you have ever read the beta forums, you'll know that we have changed our minds on the design of Elemental and decided that the spec needs to be able to do real AE in order to fill the ranged dps role. We're still considering the best way to do that. Totems, Chain Lightning, or Thunderstrom are all candidates (possibly glyphed) but all have their problems too, which is why we haven't settled on an implementation yet.

We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

Enhancement AE is fine as is. Completely imo, but as things stand, I get to throw out Chain Lightnings and use Fire Totems, and that's fine by me. Yes, it drains my mana, but in any AE situation, it's a short fight anyway. What needs to be looked at overall is Elemental Shaman. Their DPS and AE DPS need to be reassessed.

The only thing Enhancement needs is Spirit Walk to be fixed (It currently doesn't remove anything) and Earthern Power to remove snares like Frost Nova and Entangling Roots, rather then just slows, such as Hamstring and Frost Shock.

I think the answer to elemental ranged AoE is as easy as looking back to Warcraft 3 for more abilities! Enter the Far Seer, one of the main shaman influences, and use a modified version of Earthquake to give Ele shaman a ranged target circle based AoE.

Don't expect any sort of mana efficiency with AoE. Volley will drain a hunter dry in no time flat, especially if the hunter has to keep recasting it because he didn't waste 4 to 6 points on what is right now a lackluster talent.

I'll totally agree with giving Shamans stronger and more functional AoE though. All of their totem AoEs are just plain awkward to use, and chain lightning works almost exactly like Multishot but with a damage reduction - it's just not that great for wide-area nuking.

AoE is overrated. It only feels like you elem shaman are missing out now because everyone AoEs BT trash.

When CCing comes back, you'll be fine.

---

Q u o t e:
If you have ever read the beta forums, you'll know that we have changed our minds on the design of Elemental and decided that the spec needs to be able to do real AE in order to fill the ranged dps role. We're still considering the best way to do that. Totems, Chain Lightning, or Thunderstrom are all candidates (possibly glyphed) but all have their problems too, which is why we haven't settled on an implementation yet.

We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

Blade Flurry, Murder spree, and fan of knives aren't AoE?

News to me.

Can't a cat just shift into bear form and gain all of those AE abilities.

Just drop the activation time for Fire Nova down to 3 seconds (as trained), reduce the cooldown to 10 seconds and remove the initial aggro that ends up causing that totem to be destroyed before it can go off. That would give all shaman access to a functional AE that would be equivalent to what a Rogue or a Warrior brings.

Then give Elemental a cooldown reduction for Fire Nova Totem on Lava Flows (3 seconds for 3 points) so that while it wouldn't be a spammable AE it should be enough, along with chain lightning, to allow them to satisfy the AE requirements for most PvE situations.

---

Q u o t e:


Blade Flurry, Murder spree, and fan of knives aren't AoE?

News to me.

---

Blade and Murder are both combat only, and on CD, as well as providing subpar additional DPS.

Fan of Knives is weak, and it probably wont become *too* powerful, though it'd be neat if it applied a poisen to everyone it hits from your MH or OH, In my opinion.

And personally, I just think chain lightning should be made 4 targets base, with each reduction on each jump reduced, but not removed.

Then give deep elemental a talent to reduce the CD and damage reduction on chain lightning jumps.

just IMO.

---

Q u o t e:
If you have ever read the beta forums, you'll know that we have changed our minds on the design of Elemental and decided that the spec needs to be able to do real AE in order to fill the ranged dps role. We're still considering the best way to do that. Totems, Chain Lightning, or Thunderstrom are all candidates (possibly glyphed) but all have their problems too, which is why we haven't settled on an implementation yet.

We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

Oh for god's sake, not another totem. It's bad enough that Elemental has to be dead last in caster dps from t6 content until 75 just to force the F/S-LvB combo into the caster rotation, don't make Elemental AoE another tactically crippled totem that a level 1 character can negate with one attack.

Indeed, given the tone/phrasing of GC's post in the Beta Shaman forum concerning single-target dps of elemental spec vs. mages & warlocks, I have to wonder just how good this AoE will be.

I keep thinking of GC's quote:

"It's a BAD thing if someone logs into Lich King, plays for a few hours, is unimpressed with the changes to their class and decides not to go explore Northrend. That is not something we want to happen. On the other hand, it's also a bad thing if you are totally dominated or shown up by other classes. But when you think about it from our perspective, we really do want everyone to be excited about their class."
--Ghostcrawler

Elemental's playstyle has been completely demolished. A new forced playstyle, to be augmented with spells not available at 70. Elemental's former great strength of being one of the best single target dps casters is gone, replaced with gimped spells, a combo not available for the first 75 levels of the game, and a vaporware AoE that will make up the difference. Supposedly.

By your quote, GC, you've done a BAD thing. Not only am I not impressed with the changes to my favorite class/spec, not only do I NOT want to go explore Northrend, I just arranged to sell my pre-ordered Collector's Edition of WotLK on eBay.

---

Q u o t e:
If you have ever read the beta forums, you'll know that we have changed our minds on the design of Elemental and decided that the spec needs to be able to do real AE in order to fill the ranged dps role. We're still considering the best way to do that. Totems, Chain Lightning, or Thunderstrom are all candidates (possibly glyphed) but all have their problems too, which is why we haven't settled on an implementation yet.

We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

I thought Rogues were getting Fan of Knives reduced to a 10 sec CD? That would be considerable AOE potential, and if Enhancement had a similar (weapon damage based) ability, that would be very nice.

I still think that Earthquake needs to be in the Elemental Shaman's arsenal. It could be a 31 point talent right next to Elemental Mastery (which would actually bring that tier to a full 5 points).

Earthquake (requires 30 pts in Elemental) : Channeled AOE spell that deals Nature damage and dazes targets every second, within its radius. Similar to Blizzard or Rain of Fire for damage/mana numbers. Could get bonus from Storm, Earth and Fire talent. Its an iconic ability from the Farseer in WarCraft3 and honestly I can't believe its not in the game [for Shaman] yet.

---

Q u o t e:
We're not convinced Enhancement needs AE. Rogues and cats don't have a true AE (though they might really want one) and it doesn't seem to have hurt them much.

---

Not until 3.0 hit, at least, where every single pull is an AoE pull. While I don't think that'll be the case as we hit 80 and do instances/10mans, I am afraid of this happening again when people start to overgear instances. Right now, honestly, I'm wary for all classes that don't have adequate AoE.

What I'm assuming they're considering is an AoE that has to be channeled. Consider the enhance shaman that can drop a highly modified magma totem that does great AoE and can continue to melee.

Of course too they could make it talented which would be cheap for them to do considering most other classes don't have to talent theirs.