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Q u o t e:
The discussion as I see it is that people who have been unlucky with the RNG are unhappy about the fact that they cannot control or have no real direct influence over the completion of the achievement (hence the meaning of the word "random"). The problem with this is that Blizzard has stated that they want the meta achievement to be a rare accomplishment, not easily obtainable by the masses.

So, understanding that this is supposed to be an uncommon feat, the next argument usually put forth by dissenters is "RNG isn't the only way to make something rare." Well that's true... but in reality it's one of the very few ways to make something rare. So let's discuss the other options, and perhaps try to come up with some more of our own. Afterall, what use is there in crying if we have no better ideas to contribute?

Ways to make things rare:
1. Give it a low drop rate via RNG. This is probably the most common way Blizzard likes to make things rare or unique. It's the one that Blizzard has employed with this holiday. The problem is that it can be extremely unforgiving and somewhat cruel when coupled with a time limit. Other items with extremely low drop rates (like the whelp pets for example) can be farmed year round, and while painful to get due to the low drop rate, don't see too many complaints from the peanut gallery while remaining rare. When a time limit is involved, however, low drop rates probably aren't the best solution.

2. Greatly increase the difficulty of the encounter. One good and easy way to make something rare is to make it drop from a boss or mob that is extremely difficult to kill -- Kil'jaeden for example. Making the content extremely difficult to complete ensures that only a small percentage of the playerbase sees it done. However, as everyone knows, the percentage of this playerbase we're talking about here is the upper echelon of elite raiders. Making something drop from a boss that difficult completely eliminates all casuals from the fold, until you factor in the Amani War Bear syndrome (regular players paying large sums of gold to be carried through difficult content for a reward that would otherwise be unatainable). Seeing that the achievement system, as well as Holidays in general, are definitely designed to appeal to the general population (commonly referred to as "casuals"), this option is definitely not a good solution to this problem.

3. Make it a race. The first X number of people that complete Y quest get reward Z. Think AQ40 gate opening and the Scarab Lord title, or the (now removed) first X class/race to lvl80 titles. I don't think I need to explain why this is a very bad option.

Contrary to popular belief, make it incredibly time consuming is not a valid option. It may temporarily make an item really rare, but eventually the item becomes just as common as any other. This would be contradictory to Blizzard's stated position that they think the achievement should be relatively unique. Not to mention that it would not work within a short time limit (like a Holiday).

Of all the options listed above, for a casual-friendly holiday, I personally believe that Blizzard chose the best one based on their desire to keep the achievement accessible to everyone, and yet rare. If you've got a better method... please enlighten me (and Blizzard).

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Why does a FAKE computer pumpkin need to be rare why not just give it to everyone who cares

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Q u o t e:
Kisirani.

Again, my group of 5 has done it 102 times so far. One person has the squashling from last year. So far we all have helms, but have not seen a single squashling. Is this intended by you and the developers that you discussed this with?

Is 102 attempts and nothing along the lines of what you find acceptable? We got another 9 days, so about 225 more attempts before were out of chances. But at this rate, its not looking good, and Ill be lucky to see one or two drop at the very least.

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I've done 6 summons and seen the Squashling twice.

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Q u o t e:
What serious game breaking imbalance will result in people getting the achievement done? Seriously, if people put in the time (and looking at all the running all over you have to do to get the achievements done, you put in time) they should be able to get it done.

Like I've said before, it could be done better in many different ways
1. Give faction per HH kill, let us buy it at exalted
2. Give tokens for HH kills, let us buy it with tokens
3. Let it be Group lootable
4. Let is be pet or helm not both
5. Remove the summon limit

This is not gear that is going to alter or break encounters or pvp balance (thats what the patch did), so stop the insanity.

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my opinions about your ideas.

1. I'd be happy with rep for the kills, but I wouldn't think we should buy it.
2. no
3. no
4. no
5. no

there might as well be one thing where wow doesn't cave in about.
I doubt i'll get it, but if not this year maybe next year.

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Q u o t e:
I'll say that your personal experience has been unlucky, Masaren. The drop rate isn't that bad. But yes, all told, we're still fine with it.

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The drop rate is horrid for an actual average player as opposed to the mythical average player with a whole guild willing to give up their chance at the drop to back them up.

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Q u o t e:
Kisirani.

Again, my group of 5 has done it 102 times so far. One person has the squashling from last year. So far we all have helms, but have not seen a single squashling. Is this intended by you and the developers that you discussed this with?

Is 102 attempts and nothing along the lines of what you find acceptable? We got another 9 days, so about 225 more attempts before were out of chances. But at this rate, its not looking good, and Ill be lucky to see one or two drop at the very least.

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how are you in a group of 5 getting so many summons?
or are you just scrubbing them off other people?

Both my wife and I have everything completed except for "A Mask for all Occasions" (which is being removed as a req for the title). Werre both pretty casual players, so if we BOTH can do it. anyone can.

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Q u o t e:


how are you in a group of 5 getting so many summons?
or are you just scrubbing them off other people?

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Yes, thats what Blizzard is telling us we're expected to do.

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Q u o t e:


how are you in a group of 5 getting so many summons?
or are you just scrubbing them off other people?

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Most likely, and thats why people are complaining. If the drop rate counts on that many summons, if you can't expect to do it with 4 friends doing it every day, then the drop rate is WRONG. No matter how many times or out of how many heads Kis keeps barking it, its wrong.

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Q u o t e:


Title for the meta achievement: "The Hallowed"

Which I will be proudly wearing.

EDIT: But I, for one, agree that it shouldn't be based off of luck. But more or less skill. I really do hope everyone else striving for this achievement will get it!

TIP: To greatly increase your chance to get the squashling to drop on a daily basis then start asking lvls 65-69 from outland if they want a horseman run. Make sure that there is a warlock in your group and compensate the lower level by giving him all the loot from the horseman (rings and sword, etc) except for the pet, hallowed helm, and mount possibly if it drops. They will be grateful and you have more than 5 runs a day.

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oh nice. Will I still get the title if I get the pet this year but the helm last year?

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Q u o t e:
I'll say that your personal experience has been unlucky, Masaren. The drop rate isn't that bad. But yes, all told, we're still fine with it.

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Yes the drop rate is that bad .

Yes some people care about it, cause some people are actively trying to get the event done, and planning on getting all the subsequent holidays done so they can get the overall holiday meta-achievement and thus get the mount from it. If you do not complete all the achievements, you need to wait a full year before you get another chance at it. That's a HECK of a long time to be LOCKED OUT from getting it. (and yes you ARE locked out, cause there is NO other way to get it, as hallows eve obviously does not run at any other time of the year)

I know a NUMBER of people that have been doing 5+ summons a day since the start of the event and have not seen it. So are you going to claim that ALL of them "are just having a bad run of luck"?

I've run a total of 26 times so far over 3 days with the same group give or take an alt and a friend we invited so he could get the Epic Helm.

So far we got 3 Epic Helms (all 3 dropped on the first day and one went to a rogue and hunter each after the pally got his, the poor warrior friend who joined was 2 days too late sadly)
Every damn Ring
4 Brooms
And 1 each Squashling and Hallowed Helm that both went to our Pally (my son) due to luck of the roll. (The same luck has been working in reverse for acquiring toothpicks tho.)
No Sword or Mount.

So far I've had a blast doing it.
If I don't get the Achievement then who cares.
Heck, my sister who was present on 3 different toons for every pull hasn't got a broom yet! (but I do =P)

But she'll keep trying.

Don't change ANYTHING.

Well, change those annoying Tricky Treats so they're Unique (20) so they stop filling up my damn bags and I miss out on a Treat Bag because my "Bags are Full".

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Q u o t e:


Now hold on, Kujako. I said the average was 5 summons a day, and that people doing more were the extreme end. Let's not twist my words. ;)

And yes, we're basing it off that 5 summons a day average.

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Five is the maximum, not the average. Unless you get a bunch of people willing to be subservient to your whims.

And I promises you, there will be MANY people who summon five times a day, every day, and dont get the drop.

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Q u o t e:


Now hold on, Kujako. I said the average was 5 summons a day, and that people doing more were the extreme end. Let's not twist my words. ;)

And yes, we're basing it off that 5 summons a day average.

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So with 5 summons a day as your basis, how many of the group would you expect to see both items drop Kis?

The current system is fine...

people are all upset because it has been 3 days and oh no they don't have it yet....so so far you have had a possible 15-20 chances (depending if you went before the update this morning)

One of my toons had some mega luck 2 days ago ( I think i had a horseshoe up my but)... in a 5 summon run got the pet the reins and the helm and I won all 3 lol

Many people I know have seen the helm and the pet drop tons of times most I know right now are missing the helm not the pet. I still use my summons to let friends have a chance to get what they are missing and go on my other toons for them to have a shot at it too.

Random is just that random... everyone has a equal chance to get it and that is fair, people including myself sometimes don't like it but in all honesty it is the most fair way to do things..

Really I am starting to not like forums seems all people ever do is complain

yeah but lets look at it this way the achievement system was supposed to be something fun and enjoyable to do. When an achievement is only achievable by vary few and the lucky. not the hard working it begins to frustrate.