The discussion as I see it is that people who have been unlucky with the RNG are unhappy about the fact that they cannot control or have no real direct influence over the completion of the achievement (hence the meaning of the word "random"). The problem with this is that Blizzard has stated that they want the meta achievement to be a rare accomplishment, not easily obtainable by the masses.

So, understanding that this is supposed to be an uncommon feat, the next argument usually put forth by dissenters is "RNG isn't the only way to make something rare." Well that's true... but in reality it's one of the very few ways to make something rare. So let's discuss the other options, and perhaps try to come up with some more of our own. Afterall, what use is there in crying if we have no better ideas to contribute?

Ways to make things rare:
1. Give it a low drop rate via RNG. This is probably the most common way Blizzard likes to make things rare or unique. It's the one that Blizzard has employed with this holiday. The problem is that it can be extremely unforgiving and somewhat cruel when coupled with a time limit. Other items with extremely low drop rates (like the whelp pets for example) can be farmed year round, and while painful to get due to the low drop rate, don't see too many complaints from the peanut gallery while remaining rare. When a time limit is involved, however, low drop rates probably aren't the best solution.

2. Greatly increase the difficulty of the encounter. One good and easy way to make something rare is to make it drop from a boss or mob that is extremely difficult to kill -- Kil'jaeden for example. Making the content extremely difficult to complete ensures that only a small percentage of the playerbase sees it done. However, as everyone knows, the percentage of this playerbase we're talking about here is the upper echelon of elite raiders. Making something drop from a boss that difficult completely eliminates all casuals from the fold, until you factor in the Amani War Bear syndrome (regular players paying large sums of gold to be carried through difficult content for a reward that would otherwise be unatainable). Seeing that the achievement system, as well as Holidays in general, are definitely designed to appeal to the general population (commonly referred to as "casuals"), this option is definitely not a good solution to this problem.

3. Make it a race. The first X number of people that complete Y quest get reward Z. Think AQ40 gate opening and the Scarab Lord title, or the (now removed) first X class/race to lvl80 titles. I don't think I need to explain why this is a very bad option.

Contrary to popular belief, make it incredibly time consuming is not a valid option. It may temporarily make an item really rare, but eventually the item becomes just as common as any other. This would be contradictory to Blizzard's stated position that they think the achievement should be relatively unique. Not to mention that it would not work within a short time limit (like a Holiday).

Of all the options listed above, for a casual-friendly holiday, I personally believe that Blizzard chose the best one based on their desire to keep the achievement accessible to everyone, and yet rare. If you've got a better method... please enlighten me (and Blizzard).

First.

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Q u o t e:
The discussion as I see it is that people who have been unlucky with the RNG are unhappy about the fact that they cannot control or have no real direct influence over the completion of the achievement (hence the meaning of the word "random"). The problem with this is that Blizzard has stated that they want the meta achievement to be a rare accomplishment, not easily obtainable by the masses.

So, understanding that this is supposed to be an uncommon feat, the next argument usually put forth by dissenters is "RNG isn't the only way to make something rare." Well that's true... but in reality it's one of the very few ways to make something rare. So let's discuss the other options, and perhaps try to come up with some more of our own. Afterall, what use is there in crying if we have no better ideas to contribute?

Ways to make things rare:
1. Give it a low drop rate via RNG. This is probably the most common way Blizzard likes to make things rare or unique. It's the one that Blizzard has employed with this holiday. The problem is that it can be extremely unforgiving and somewhat cruel when coupled with a time limit. Other items with extremely low drop rates (like the whelp pets for example) can be farmed year round, and while painful to get due to the low drop rate, don't see too many complaints from the peanut gallery while remaining rare. When a time limit is involved, however, low drop rates probably aren't the best solution.

2. Greatly increase the difficulty of the encounter. One good and easy way to make something rare is to make it drop from a boss or mob that is extremely difficult to kill -- Kil'jaeden for example. Making the content extremely difficult to complete ensures that only a small percentage of the playerbase sees it done. However, as everyone knows, the percentage of this playerbase we're talking about here is the upper echelon of elite raiders. Making something drop from a boss that difficult completely eliminates all casuals from the fold, until you factor in the Amani War Bear syndrome (regular players paying large sums of gold to be carried through difficult content for a reward that would otherwise be unatainable). Seeing that the achievement system, as well as Holidays in general, are definitely designed to appeal to the general population (commonly referred to as "casuals"), this option is definitely not a good solution to this problem.

3. Make it a race. The first X number of people that complete Y quest get reward Z. Think AQ40 gate opening, and the Scarab Lord title. I don't think I need to explain why this is a very bad option.

Contrary to popular belief, make it incredibly time consuming is not a valid option. It may temporarily make an item really rare, but eventually the item becomes just as common as any other. This would be contradictory to Blizzard's stated position that they think the achievement should be relatively unique. Not to mention that it would not work within a short time limit (like a Holiday).

Of all the options listed above, for a casual-friendly holiday, I personally believe that Blizzard chose the best one based on their desire to keep the achievement accessible, and yet rare. If you've got a better method... please enlighten me (and Blizzard).

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I am amazed, literally, that WoW players are making THIS much of a big deal about this..seriously, its mind boggling.

My mage will be the hallow when 3.0.3 comes out.
Yes the drop rate sucks I have seen the sinister once (and got it) and the helm twice(got it first time it dropped) Lucky certainly Btw money talks pay off the other party members and Gold too persuade other to click pass always helps.

The best way to make it 'rare' but still have it obtainable?

Each halloween quest, including HH, rewards some kind of token - similar to Brewfest. You get enough of them, you can turn it in for the pet/helm. However, the amount of tokens required would have to be high enough that you really need to do everything you can to get them. But the upside to that is that you know that after you put the work in, you're gonna get the reward.

Personally, I think they should make Sinister Calling be an achievement for either item, not both.

wait huh?

First? edit: boooo

People obsessing over these achievements make me laugh. I've already made over 100g just by selling costumes from wands, and I know of people who've made even more.

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Q u o t e:
Thank you, Libzee. :)

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You're very welcome! ^_^

Nutshell: Brewfest randomness round 2 except instead of a mount it's a silly pet.

That's all I'm getting from this blue confirmation. But I suppose it doesn't matter, I'll get it eventually.

I agree they took the laziest, most uncreative, uninspired way to arbitrarily limit this achievement to those who got lucky.

wtb a /roll 1000 achievement if you happen to hit that number blizzard was thinking about; title 'god of rng'

The problem as I see it is that every holiday is a new opportunity to have the RNG break your streak and prevent you from getting the meta-achievement. You may get lucky and get the Sinister Calling complete, but then you have to worry about not getting the right drops for Winter Veil, or Noble's Garden, or Children's Week, or the Lunar Festival. And what happens to the poor guy who's made it almost all year and gotten lucky every time, but misses one achievement for one of the holidays? I dunno, the system for getting this particular achievement seems kinda bad to me. It seems that simply making us do each of the quests and non-RNG-influenced achievements for each of the holidays all year would make it sufficiently rare. As it is, I kinda feel like we're racing to ring the AQ gong all over again.

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Q u o t e:
Thank you, Libzee. :)

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Ahhhh you just posted to make her thread explode, I'm on to you!

Since you're here, tho, let me point out that I reeeeeeally like the bats flying around the Undercity during Hallow's End. I know there's no plans to make them year-round, but still.... reeeeeeeeeeeally nice touch. If, by some fluke, they accidentally stayed year round, you wouldn't hear one complaint about it from me, ya dig? ;)

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Q u o t e:
First? edit: boooo

People obsessing over these achievements make me laugh. I've already made over 100g just by selling costumes from wands, and I know of people who've made even more.

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People who exploit fun in-game holidays for greed make me ill. You think THEY'RE missing the point...

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Q u o t e:
First? edit: boooo

People obsessing over these achievements make me laugh. I've already made over 100g just by selling costumes from wands, and I know of people who've made even more.

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This is how I am paying for the herbs needed to level inscription.


Never thought I would see the day peacebloom would cost 30g... I mean good luck finding a herb node anywhere right now so farming it is out of the question.

NO I WANT EVERYTHING IN THE GAME SO I CAN BRAG ABOUT IT !!!!!!