60. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/13/2007 09:36:16 PM PDT
DoT can be removed or healer thorugh, there is no discussion to be had.
Resiliance doesn't effect DoT for the same reason Resistance doesn't effect physical damage.
DoT be effected by resiliance is the same as asking for Spell resistance to reduce physical damage.
61. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/13/2007 09:38:40 PM PDT
Q u o t e: DoT can be removed or healer thorugh, there is no discussion to be had.
Resiliance doesn't effect DoT for the same reason Resistance doesn't effect physical damage.
DoT be effected by resiliance is the same as asking for Spell resistance to reduce physical damage.
Resilience affects physical damage that is capable of critting just fine...
73. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/14/2007 11:52:30 AM PDT
Q u o t e: We're looking into it.
yay, thank you for letting us know. it will be interesting to see what you decide, and Im sure you know that whatever it is, lots of people are going to be unhappy.
sometimes, i dont envy your job, but thanks for the update.
74. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/14/2007 11:52:37 AM PDT
Q u o t e:
And suddenly, this became a legendary thread.
I'm FIRMLY on the side of, dots shouldn't crit since they can be dispelled and healed through.
Dot's can't be LoS'd. They have been balanced to do equal damage to other classes therefore they should be affected by resilience just like other classes spells/skills.
for a second there I thought you were talking about someone else's o
75. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/14/2007 11:53:54 AM PDT
Q u o t e: I don't know how many people have seen this, but I know how controversial this topic is and there's an amazing post at http://www.shadow-gaming.com that covers basically all possible facets of the subject.
An excerpt:
Well I’ve seen an incredible amount of discussion going on in the various Warcraft forums about the discriminative nature of resilience in terms of mitigating PvP DPS. To put it simply, resilience doesn’t affect DoTs, and with two classes (Shadow Priest, Warlock) often relying on these spells as their primary source of damage, there is a major disparity in the effect of PvP gear scaling on different players. As many times as this topic has been addressed, I have yet to see it covered as systematically and thoroughly as necessary in order to (hopefully) show exactly what the issue is, and what can be done about it. This is not about nerfing any particular class(es), only working to insure that game progression and gear development do not result in disparate effects for different players.
From looking at the season two Warrior set, we can probably assume that most t2 Gladiator sets are going to have about 10-15 more resilience (including new set bonuses) than the current gear. Combined with a new PvP Ring, upgrades to the honor epics, and a new non-unique craftable resilience gem, I’d say the average resilience of players on top arena teams will increase by around 30-50 (and a bit more for the hardcore resilience !@!*!s). Right now, the average on serious teams is probably around 320, with people like Azael getting as high as 450.
In The Evolving Arena, and Playing the Long Game, I went pretty thoroughly into the mathematics behind resilience, particularly in terms of the flat damage reduction that crit-reliant players receive from it. Basically, depending on your class, every 40 resilience that your opponent is wearing results in a ~1.5-2% overall reduction of your own damage.
DoTs can’t crit, however, and so while resilience scaling makes a huge impact on some players, Warlocks and Shadow Priests remain mostly untouched. This may not seem like that big of a deal, but it basically means that (relatively speaking), these two classes get a direct buff every time PvP itemization improves. With Azael’s 400+ resilience resulting in more than a 15% flat damage reduction for most classes, he can spam DoTs all day at 100% effectiveness. While I’m certainly aware that both Warlocks and Shadow Priests have direct damage spells as well, the large part of their damage that comes from DoTs can only be mitigated by wearing Shadow Resist gear.
The effect of this scaling disparity between classes should be reasonably apparent for anyone who has been keeping an eye on the armory. Between the beginning of the season and now, I’ve personally seen a significant increase in the number of Warlocks/Shadow Priests on top arena teams. Now, I’m not going to argue that the representation of these classes is too high or low at the higher levels, but I think this is a good indicator of how much resilience scaling has affected PvP for these classes.
Now, I’m sure it’s pretty clear that I’m all for making resilience more useful against damage over time effects, and I think the best way to explain my reasoning is to examine the main objections that people have to any resilience changes.
I've seen these talks over and over again. But people always seem to forget that:
A) DOTS do there damage over time... it's very predictable damage which makes it easier to just heal through.
B) They can be REMOVED. You can stop the damage from happening.
C) Resilience is meant to stop burst damage. DOTS are not burst damage.
People like to think there is a problem because they think resilience should protect from everything, it does not. It was not designed to. It was designed to slow down 1-2 shot killing so that battles would last longer and give time for players to counter act what someone is doing. In short make sure a game could be played.
76. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/14/2007 11:53:55 AM PDT
Q u o t e: We're looking into it.
So you realize that the combined potential of crit and +damage outweighs just +damage alone, right? That this puts DoTs at a disadvantage as gear increases compared to spells that can crit?
In my opinion, that in itself is a much more serious effect than resilience not affecting DoTs.
79. Re: Intelligent Discussion of DoTs and Resili 06/14/2007 11:56:13 AM PDT
Q u o t e:
Dot's can't be LoS'd. They have been balanced to do equal damage to other classes therefore they should be affected by resilience just like other classes spells/skills.
