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Q u o t e:


Lol.

Its expected for idiots to give up when presented with a superior argument. Chicken out if you will, one less idiot for me to waste my time on.

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What superior Argument you fool? You haven't refuted any of my points.

1) Is there an Arena rating requirement on the gear in question? Answer: No
2) Can you lose games and gain points? Answer: Yes.

Where is the skill? Are you claiming that you need skill to lose games? If not, then you are agreeing with me you idiot. If you are claiming that it takes skill to lose, well then you're proving yourself a fool by your own statements.

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Q u o t e:
Actually, your statements CAN be easily refuted.

The problem is that its a waste of time because no matter how logical and crystal clear things are made for you, you will never see the other side of it.

You are too busy twisting words and trying to sound "smart" on the intrawebs

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By all means, refute them. My logic is sound.

He is talking about "skill" yet wants to reward players with 1400-1500 arena rating.... Fail

He says that with EQUAL gear, then the more skilled player would win....... DUH... Fail

It's obvious Kalgan thinks everyone AFKs in BG's and that no one does ANYTHING besides suck in them, hence the whole can't measure skill bullcrap........ Fail

He continues to be the elite pompous jackcrap that he has always been...... FAIL!!!


Will their whole plan to make PvP in an MMO consist of a maximum of 5 vs 5 work? Who Knows... not the reason why I'm playing an MMO and certainly not the reason I PvP in an MMO.

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Q u o t e:

Warhammer is having its own problems. Two nights ago, a bunch of level 30 dudes in terrible gear walked through a hole in a keep and captured the order's capital in 15 minutes. Now the warhammer community is crying about incomplete endgame content being incomplete and comparing the game to AoC.

No game is perfect.

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Warhammer has also been out two weeks whereas TBC alone has been out two years. Certainly there are issues to be worked out; however, the real problem with Blizzard is one of design philosophy.

Hell, if they just give me the Stormwind Guard gear, I'll be happy with that. C'MON BABY, I WANT MAH RP GEARZ!!!!

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Q u o t e:
People should hope Warhammer becomes extremely successful so that WoW will be forced to switch to their style of PvP and take the emphasis away from Arenas.

I understand you need Arenas to market the game off of tournaments and such. That's fine, keep it around, but give the rest of your players some real PvP.

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Warhammer is for scrubs who can't keep up with the faster-paced PvP of WoW. WAR PvP is slow, clumsy, and boring. Calling it a "PvP game" will get you a swift kick in the balls from any decent PvPer who has experienced both games.

No thanks to WoW getting Warhammer's style of garbage PvP. If you like it so much, do us all a favor and quit WoW for Warhammer. One less baddie in this game.

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Q u o t e:



Ok, what are you not understanding here. I'll break it down.

Kalgan stated that since you cannot measure "Skill" in BG's they added Arena points to gear, since you can measure "skill" in arena. However, you cannot measure skill in arena without having some sort or "rating system". Since the rating system doesn't apply to the gear in question, No skill is measured.

Does that make sense now? (Besides the fact that his saying that doesn't make sense at all)

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"As far as the question as to why the Savage Gladiator set requires arena points, there needs to be a set of gear obtainable through arena points that requires no rating, otherwise there's simply nothing for a player of 1500 or below to play for, beyond the hope that they might at some point go above 1600 rating (which not everyone is guaranteed to do). "

learn to read ok?

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Q u o t e:


Warhammer has also been out two weeks whereas TBC alone has been out two years. Certainly there are issues to be worked out; however, the real problem with Blizzard is one of design philosophy.

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I'm aware that Warhammer has only been out for two weeks.
Capitalism doesn't care. Warhammer has to compete against games that have been out for years. The fact that Warhammer has only been out for two weeks doesn't mean that it's less of a problem that the entire playerbase is up in arms at the moment.

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Q u o t e:

Ok, what are you not understanding here. I'll break it down.

Kalgan stated that since you cannot measure "Skill" in BG's they added Arena points to gear, since you can measure "skill" in arena. However, you cannot measure skill in arena without having some sort or "rating system". Since the rating system doesn't apply to the gear in question, No skill is measured.

Does that make sense now? (Besides the fact that his saying that doesn't make sense at all)

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This is exacly why I don't understand the arena points on the savage items. It only serves to get people to do strip down naked/AFK and do 10 games a week to feed the ladder. Why is this reqiured? Is that really what the arena players need?

Everything he said are things I've heard arena players say right here on general. That doesn't mean it's wrong, it just means he had nothing to say. He's making logical concessions, but not willing to flat out admit that many players are saying that arena is not a desirable addition to the endgame.

He seems to be confused into thinking that there's a crossover between the fighting game crowd and the MMO crowd. It may exist, but not to the extend that the devs imagine.

Competition must be a voluntary thing. If you didn't willingly thrust yourself into the pack of starving hyenas, it's not a fun experience for you, it's just self-sacrifice. This is true even if you are a tiny god, and can beat anyone at anything.

Furthermore, the idea that gear must be 'earned' in accordance with a statistical chart is not consistent with an MMO's overall design. Since an MMO is entirely social in nature, it is social forces that determine whether you are permitted to group with players that are earning the big rewards. They determine whether you deserve the loot that drops.

When the health bar determines whether you get the "rewards," that's a different sort of game entirely. I can play THAT game in WSG any time I feel like it, and the reward in question is the thrill of victory.

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Q u o t e:

Warhammer is for scrubs who can't keep up with the faster-paced PvP of WoW. WAR PvP is slow, clumsy, and boring. Calling it a "PvP game" will get you a swift kick in the balls from any decent PvPer who has experienced both games.

No thanks to WoW getting Warhammer's style of garbage PvP. If you like it so much, do us all a favor and quit WoW for Warhammer. One less baddie in this game.

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You have a fairly high opinion of yourself for someone with an 1800 rating. And a rogue at that.

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Q u o t e:

I'm aware that Warhammer has only been out for two weeks.
Capitalism doesn't care. Warhammer has to compete against games that have been out for years. The fact that Warhammer has only been out for two weeks doesn't mean that it's less of a problem that the entire playerbase is up in arms at the moment.

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That has nothing to do with my original point.

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Q u o t e:


"As far as the question as to why the Savage Gladiator set requires arena points, there needs to be a set of gear obtainable through arena points that requires no rating, otherwise there's simply nothing for a player of 1500 or below to play for, beyond the hope that they might at some point go above 1600 rating (which not everyone is guaranteed to do). "

learn to read ok?

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Quote the rest of it. He said it also is there because it needs to require "skill". There is no skill in losing games. Learn to read what you quote please.

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Q u o t e:


I wish it were that simple. However, for a rating system to reasonably zero in on the skill of a single player in a game with teammates it takes a number of games approximately equal to ten times the number of players participating on that player's team.

So for example, for a rating system to have all the information it needs to know to figure out how "good" of a battleground player you are in Alterac Valley, it needs to take about 400 games to do it (10 times the number of players on your team). Unfortunately, that's without the additional complexities of being able to queue solo versus queueing as a group, etc.

It would be kind of annoying to have to play about 400 games of AV before the system could decide what items you're eligible for. So, there are some complexities in creating a system to work around that problem (among others).

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How about making rated Battlegrounds only accessible via Premades? Meanwhile disabling Premades on non-rated Battlegrounds?

Would be nice to see some more NPCs in there, too. :)

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Q u o t e:


For every idiot going "lol nub" there's another idiot going "lol elitist arena players".

Kalgan isn't listening to either side. This isn't about battlegrounds vs arenas. This is about fairness in gear progression between pvp and pve.

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Fairness? In what?

I BG all the freakin time and as soon as ANYONE is suspected of AFKing they get reported and no honor for them. And even that happens very very little now a days, most people do participate. Don't tell me no one ever exploits arenas either?...

Arenas and BG's are the same skill wise. I don't see why having something that is 2 tiers lower counts as being fair and equal and OMGWTFOP!!!