Haste Rating

The bottom line is 1% haste is a 1% increase in overall dmg. However with patch 2.1.0 it is getting nerfed to be double the amount of spell haste rating for the same speed increase.

The Spell haste formula is:
Talented Casting Time/(1+Haste)

On Live, haste rating conversion is 10.5 rating=1% haste. (Quags eye grants 30.44% haste)

On PTR: Assuming same formula the new rating conversion is 20.8 rating=1% haste (QE grants 15.38% haste)

Nice nerf. 2080 rating needed for 100% haste aka 50% casting time.

If you were to use all of static +haste rating items you get 6.2% faster cast time, with the ashtongue proc for mage with high crit,say 33 % as base,13.17% faster cast time every 5 out of 9 seconds casting.

I hope with patch and boss loots that items like these will increase. I for one would be interested in trying some of this gear and seeing how it stacks against gear stacked with dam/crit instead of dam/haste.

Your opinions?

Quagmirran's Eye – 320 haste rating when procced
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=27683

Waistwrap of Infinity – 32 haste rating.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32256

Bracers of Nimble Thought - 28 haste rating
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32586

Mantle of Nimble Thought – 38 haste rating
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32587

Blade of Wizardry – 280 haste rating when procced
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=31336

Mind Quickening Gem – 330haste rating when used
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=19339

Ashtongue Talisman of Insight – 145 haste rating when procced
Your spell critical strikes have a 50% chance to grant you 145 spell haste rating for 5 sec.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32488

Ring of Ancient Knowledge – 31 haste rating
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=32527

Mages are going to have a complicated relationship with spell haste... It's not 'free' damage the way other stats are, as you burn mana faster to do more damage, and it shortens the duration of Evocation without improving the effect.

Honestly it would be at the bottom of my stats to get list or very near the bottom.
1. Hit
2. Damage
3. Crit
4. haste.
5. int/stam
6. spirit

1% DPS, 0% DPM. Hit/crit/dmg are all DPS and DPM upgrades, and haste converts as poorly as crit without the additional efficiency. Not exactly winning me over.

http://www.wowwiki.com/Haste



Patch 1.12

Previously Haste and Slow effects worked inconsistently, with spells working differently from weapons, and hastes and slows not acting as inverses of each other. We have revised the system so that all haste and slow effects work the same way, and haste and slow percentages of the same magnitude perfectly cancel each other out (30% haste and 30% slow combine to no change).

Conceptually, haste values indicate how much more of that activity you can perform in a given time. 30% melee haste means 30% more swings in a given time. Slow values indicate how much longer an activity takes to complete. 30% slow means an action takes 30% longer to finish.

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Q u o t e:
1% DPS, 0% DPM. Hit/crit/dmg are all DPS and DPM upgrades, and haste converts as poorly as crit without the additional efficiency. Not exactly winning me over.

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It's actually slightly worse than that.

I personally have always considered effective DPM which is defined as (Mana Cost - Casting Speed * Regeneration Rate) / Damage

And using that definiton of DPM, you actually get negative DPM from Spell Haste.

I'm speculating that the nerf was intended to pave the way for tier 6, since I have some guildies who keep telling me over and over that hastes is "EVERYWHERE" on those set pieces.

My beef is the nerf to haste really diminished the value of existing items to the point that they really aren't valid substitutes for their equivalent, non-haste counterparts. Stacking haste items will still be fun I suppose, but individually the current items available just don't cut it :\

The only things I'm not sure about are items like the spell haste meta gem. My understanding is that those cut down your casting time by a percentage, and should be unaffected by the nerf. Is that correct?

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Q u o t e:

It's actually slightly worse than that.

I personally have always considered effective DPM which is defined as (Mana Cost - Casting Speed * Regeneration Rate) / Damage

And using that definiton of DPM, you actually get negative DPM from Spell Haste.

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How important is DPM? I respecced temporarily on a whim (needed a change of pace for a few weeks) and since it was in response I loaded in a hefty amount of PvE mana conservation talents. Using those the fights in Kara at least don't strain me at all.

Also, if the tier 6 stuff really has a load of +haste on it (going off info from a guild mate, not personal knowledge) is it likely that blizzard is giving the gear haste with some sort of relation to future content in mind, i.e. encounters where haste will be important?

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Q u o t e:
How important is DPM? I respecced temporarily on a whim (needed a change of pace for a few weeks) and since it was in response I loaded in a hefty amount of PvE mana conservation talents. Using those the fights in Kara at least don't strain me at all.

Also, if the tier 6 stuff really has a load of +haste on it (going off info from a guild mate, not personal knowledge) is it likely that blizzard is giving the gear haste with some sort of relation to future content in mind, i.e. encounters where haste will be important?

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The problem with haste is that it's only marginally better than crit per point. But it has this added detriment of having negative DPM attached to it.

Crit was bad in the first place. A stat just as bad as crit, but with an unpleasant downside is even worse.

I really hate that particular definition of DPM, but recognize it's wide spread. The problem i have with defining DPM that way is, by innate description, DPM = "damage/mana". What you described would more accurately be true mana cost, since just like you can't imply a time factor in a division sign, you can't weasel one in to the word "per".

I bow to the mob on this one, but it still rankles.

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Q u o t e:
I really hate that particular definition of DPM, but recognize it's wide spread. The problem i have with defining DPM that way is, by innate description, DPM = "damage/mana". What you described would more accurately be true mana cost, since just like you can't imply a time factor in a division sign, you can't weasel one in to the word "per".

I bow to the mob on this one, but it still rankles.

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Well, really, there's no time factor in DPM at all. The division sign always translates into a "per" when you are trying to figure out the unit of a quantity you're calculation

So Damage per Mana becomes Damage / Mana, and then the rest is simply defining the definiton of Damage and the definiton of Mana you want to use.

But, you're not the only one that doesn't like my particular definition of DPM. The real reason why it's so popular though is because it makes other calculations significantly easier, such as Full burn or Longevity calculations. If you didn't use the effective DPM definition, you'd run into a whole host of unpleasantries in the math such as infinite series and the like.

I would never give up hit rating for spell haste.

Plus spell haste proc and passive spell haste are way way different.

I could see myself giving up some damage and crit for passive spell haste (BT/Hyjal items have it).

It's incredibly hard to theorize the DPS gained or lost between damage/crit and passive spell haste. I would assume fights where you move alot it would be bad and fights where you just sit there and spam fireball it would be great.

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Q u o t e:
I would never give up hit rating for spell haste.

Plus spell haste proc and passive spell haste are way way different.

I could see myself giving up some damage and crit for passive spell haste (BT/Hyjal items have it).

It's incredibly hard to theorize the DPS gained or lost between damage/crit and passive spell haste. I would assume fights where you move alot it would be bad and fights where you just sit there and spam fireball it would be great.

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Actually, spellhaste would be ever so slightly better on fights where you have to move around, because it enhances mobility. But other than that, spellhaste is quite straightforward to calculate.

Bottom line:

F Spell Haste.

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Q u o t e:
Bottom line:

F Spell Haste.

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Pretty much, its item value is so incredibly high you have to give up too much to aquire it.

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Q u o t e:

Well, really, there's no time factor in DPM at all. The division sign always translates into a "per" when you are trying to figure out the unit of a quantity you're calculation

So Damage per Mana becomes Damage / Mana, and then the rest is simply defining the definiton of Damage and the definiton of Mana you want to use.

But, you're not the only one that doesn't like my particular definition of DPM. The real reason why it's so popular though is because it makes other calculations significantly easier, such as Full burn or Longevity calculations. If you didn't use the effective DPM definition, you'd run into a whole host of unpleasantries in the math such as infinite series and the like.

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You're over thinking it, part of the reason I dislike the common use definition of DPM is that it's not true all the time. If you are at full mana, you will not gain regen, if you are out of 5s it won't be true; I just don't like presenting a modified mana term as straight mana. This is not to say that the regen factor isn't important in per pool calculations, but just that when something says "DPM" the intuitive response is to do the simple math.


Getting back on topic, it occurs to me that the way blizzard probably implements spell haste makes it better the more you stack it. For example, the first 1% haste increase you get will be worth 1% dps, but the second will be worth a little more, as you are taking a slightly larger chunk out of your already reduced cast time. If you could contrive to stack a whole hell of a lot of it, it might be worth a pretty nice DPS boost, especially on already modified long cast time spells (fireball basically).

Just a quick semantic clarification -

Casting 1% faster is actually >1% more DPS. Consider if you will:

With 50% haste, you will cast twice as many spells - that is a 100% DPS increase
With 25% haste, you will cast 4/3 as many spells - that is a 33% DPS increase
With 10% haste, you will cast 10/9 as many spells - 11% increase
With 5% haste, you will cast 20/19 as many spells - 5.3% increase
With 1% haste, you will cast 100/99 as many spells - 1.01% increase

As dependent on instants as mages are, I see spell haste as a pretty poor stat (Talking strictly PVP).
However, in the hands of healing classes (hi2u paladin) this could be incredibly powerful. Say hello to 1.5 second holy lights etc (with the paladin talent). Could become very powerful if stacked enough.

I really really really really hope they release some new PVP armor with this stuff on it, whether it be new honor gear (idc if they double the cost - I'd get it) or new glaidator gear.
This stuff will be crazy gewd for a paladin ;-o

Basically this will be very good for classes that depend on long casts in pvp.
Paladins are at the top of this list, shamans/druids/priests next in line.

I'll give my input here:

I currently Stack Blade of Wizardry and Quag's Eye.

Pre-patch if they both proc'd together I would lose almost a full second on my casting time of spells. I agree this was a bit overpowered but.....

Post-Patch when they both proc together I see a .3-.4 second reduction in casting time.

When 1 of them procs, I'm lucky to even notice the decrease in my spellcasting time.

In short......It sucks now. It's not worth what you sacrifice in Stats or Crit/Hit/Spell damage in order to obtain the spell haste.

Here's the problem: It used to be that I could get 3 Fireballs off in the 6 seconds that the spell procs. I'd get the very last fireball off just as the "0" ticks away, which means I still got the haste bonus for that spell. Now, I can barely get 2 spells off in the 6 seconds that I'm hasted.

I think an even trade off would be to extend the amount of time you're hasted by 1 second. This would make up for the reduction somewhat in spell haste, and allow us to maybe get a bit more benefit out of the hasted time fram.

But if it stays as is, I'm changing out all of my spell haste items.