Progression in WoW is the name of the game, in order to do Naxx you need to do Heroics, in order to do Ulduar you need to do Naxx, and so on.

Once 3.2 comes out the chain will then be

Heroics > Naxx > Ulduar > 3.2 > Icecrown

I'm suggesting creating a Valor level of 5 man instances to help bridge the gap to getting to Ulduar once 3.2 comes out, by allowing for Naxx level drops in new harder 5 mans and allowing the end bosses in them to drop valor tokens (on a weekly timer).

The big problem with the progression in BC was that a good portion of the player base got stuck and couldn't get geared enough to see TK, BT, MT. While LK is much easier to progress the same problems are going to start showing their head as the gap between the haves and the have nots extends with more steps in the progression chain.

Today (and I'm speculating) lets say that the average player is able to run VoA, OS, and a wing or two of Naxx a week. That is roughly 5 to 8 valor tokens a week for gear that is 60 to 80 tokens a piece. At 8 tokens a week that means it would take some one 10 weeks to get the 80 token piece and another 8 weeks for that 60 piece. All this for a person that would be trying to catch up and get to Uldar which by 3.2 won't even be the highest tier raid.

If Valor was added to increased difficulty 5 mans to say the end bosses, then that opens up another 10 tokens (again on a weekly basis) and accelerates that process for getting to Naxx and beyond it by weeks. And it doesn't take anything away from the top two tiers of raids because the gear earned would still only be the gear required to get into 3.1.

For most people 5 mans are easier to run then 10's or 25's and it's a bunch of content that for a lot of players is no longer relevant. This would extend the use of those instances without taking anything away from the rest of the game.

Progression has always been a line, why not make it a funnel?

Again, this would only be after 3.2 and is not to replace the gear obtained in Ulduar or higher. It's to allow other ways of getting gear equal to what comes out of Naxx, after 3.2.

I agree.

They probably won't make valor badges earnable through 5-mans, but they may add additional heroic badge loot to help close the gap between heroics and raids a little quicker. And who knows, they may eventually make valor badges available to 5-man runners, once we get up to Badges of GreatJustice when Icecrown hits.

There's also a lot more high-end raid gear that is BoE or craftable this expac, so run those dailies and build up your cash, and you can buy your way to higher raids.

bored at work bump =)

Getting emblems of valor and T8 gear from VoA is hard?

When did this happen?

Is it really that hard?

Say it with me: ULD-UAR

Not Uldar.



Also, you put you need "Uldar" for Naxx. Which is not true, even if you meant you need Naxx for "Uldar" that still isn't true. I skipped Naxx and went straight to "Uldar."

I typed it in backwards, shoot me. You got the context of what I was saying.

And it's not that the content is "that hard" it can be hard to organize a group of people to run it on a consistant basis in order to farm out the gear needed. It's a time issue, which right now is fine, but once 3.2 and 3.3 are released there will be a portion of players that won't have progressed beyond Naxx like there was with Kara.

Besides, it's more to do, as long as it doesn't hinder the development of something else cool, how is it a bad thing?

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Q u o t e:

Also, you put you need "Uldar" for Naxx. Which is not true, even if you meant you need Naxx for "Uldar" that still isn't true. I skipped Naxx and went straight to "Uldar."

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You're lucky your guild is willing to take you because no PuG will. We are also currently gearing up a new holy paladin in Ulduar because taking her to Naxx is such a hassle.

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Q u o t e:


I skipped Naxx and went straight to "Uldar."

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With two naxx drops I wouldnt say you skipped it. You might of been in there a few times but you didnt skip it all together

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Q u o t e:


With two naxx drops I wouldnt say you skipped it. You might of been in there a few times but you didnt skip it all together

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You're right I ran 10 naxx once and 25 naxx once, in a recent guild, and I had top dps so I peaced out and went to a better guild that did all ulduar and they took me through a heroic saw my dps was fine, then did EoE once. Then I was taken on a 10 ulduar to make sure I got to know some of the fights and now I'm doing 25 ulduar 4-5 days a week and 10 the other days.

I'm sorry, couldn't resist.

But yeah, I agree.

Hard 5-mans would be cool, assuming there on a reset timer like raids.

This is really good news for someone considering making a new character like me. /hug Zarhym.

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Q u o t e:
We have some new things in store for the badge system to help with the current end game progression curve that exists (as you noted: Heroics > Naxx > Ulduar > 3.2 > Icecrown ). We're looking to put together this information for you and will provide it as soon as it's ready to go.

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Hopefully it doesn't include farming heroics for Ulduar/Argent Colliseum ilevel loot.

pvpers who just do battlegrounds get upgrades when new seasons start, why cant people who just do 5 man dungeons get a little love too.

and yes i know, they don't neccesarily need big jumps in gear, but it is nice to get something new once in a while

I would like to see 5-mans that drop valor and end bosses that drop conquest. It's frustrating collecting emblems from naxx10/heroics once you've bought everything you need.